Okay, this topic has been done to death, but this was an interesting (although lacking in areas) article. Old, and probably read before by many, but I found it quite entertaining to chew on. It's neat to see what the trainers think; it's also interesting to read their selections and comments.

http://www.*********.com/scott199.htm

As for mine, which is subject to change after 1-3 at any given moment:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Larry Holmes
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Jack Dempsey/Gene Tunney (not just because they fought each other)

Like the Big Ten Conference, I really have 11.

those trainers had good lists, but i can't believe that Freddie Roach put James Toney on his list, I mean I know he trains him and all, but come on, do you really think that Toney is a top 10 heavyweight, not me.

as for mine:

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Gene Tunney
4. Jack Dempsey
5. Rocky Marciano
6. Sonny Liston
7. George Foreman
8. Sam Langford
9. Joe Frazier
10. Larry Holmes

lennox lewis gets no respect on this forum, this is hilarious. Sam Langford on a top 10 heavyweight list, why are the fans of this sport so gullable to the hype of old legends.

lennox lewis gets no respect on this forum, this is hilarious. Sam Langford on a top 10 heavyweight list, why are the fans of this sport so gullable to the hype of old legends.

Actually, he gets plenty of respect on thid forum, IMO.

Actually, he gets plenty of respect on thid forum, IMO.

Butterfly, lennox lewis is a guaranteed top 10 heavyweight of all times, the people that disagree know nothing about this sport. You know it and i know it.

Top 10.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Lewis
Holyfield
Marciano
Tyson
Johnson

Top 10.

Ali
Louis
Holmes
Foreman
Frazier
Lewis
Holyfield
Marciano
Tyson
Johnson

very good list, except i would put liston in and take johnson out.

Butterfly, lennox lewis is a guaranteed top 10 heavyweight of all times, the people that disagree know nothing about this sport. You know it and i know it.

Ok, and what does this have to do with my last post?

Ok, and what does this have to do with my last post?

he would knock johnson the **** out, respect lennox!

here we go again!!

i feel gene tunney has been severly underrated . he was 88-1-2 if my memory serves.

In no order

Dempsey
Marciano
Louis
Lewis
Ali
Tyson
Holmes
Liston
Johnson
Foreman

Other greats left out: Joe Frazier, Evander Holyfield, Gene Tunney,
Top 15 would most likely have all these fighters in it.

he would knock johnson the **** out, respect lennox!

Like I said, he gets enough respect on these forums, IMO, and I do give him respect as well. He's on pretty much everyone's top 10 lists (some even top 5), and he's on my list as well. So again, what are you babbling about?

Like I said, he gets enough respect on these forums, IMO, and I do give him respect as well. He's on pretty much everyone's top 10 lists (some even top 5), and he's on my list as well. So again, what are you babbling about?

I hate peoplewho come on here and wine.................I just wish we could vote to have people banned.

I hate peoplewho come on here and wine.................I just wish we could vote to have people banned.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I will admit that when he's not talking about heavyweights, he sounds pretty knowledgable.

well i wasnt talking about him in particular i was just making a general statemant.

1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. George Foreman
5. Jack Johnson
6. Larry Holmes
7. Joe Frazier
8. Sonny Liston
9. Mike Tyson
10. Jack Dempsey/Gene Tunney (not just because they fought each other)


Bro, Lennox Lewis has to be on this list. Probably switch out Tyson for Lennox. Other than that, I agree. I think Holyfield could make top 10 as well but it would be hard to think who he could replace on that list.

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I will admit that when he's not talking about heavyweights, he sounds pretty knowledgable.

I know who are the 5 best heavyweights, in head to head terms ok. I don't have to hype a certain guy to make sure he does well against other heavyweights. I know who is gonna give larry holmes hell and i also know who's ears larry is gonna box off.

I know that liston would walk through frazier and marciano without any sweat at all. Frazier is overrated, he purposely dodged all the big punchers and thought foreman was a skilless goon, look what happened.:owned:

I know who are the 5 best heavyweights, in head to head terms ok. I don't have to hype a certain guy to make sure he does well against other heavyweights. I know who is gonna give larry holmes hell and i also know who's ears larry is gonna box off.

I know that liston would walk through frazier and marciano without any sweat at all. Frazier is overrated, he purposely dodged all the big punchers and thought foreman was a skilless goon, look what happened.:owned:

Incidentally, who are your top 5 heavies head to head?

Incidentally, who are your top 5 heavies head to head?

In no specifc order:

ali
holmes
foreman
liston
lewis

Rocky was a bully that fought grandfathers and small guys. Joe Frazier is lucky he didnt fight the amount of big punchers that norton did, it would end with the same result. Joe Louis had a ****ty chin, nuff said. I dont want to hear about any excuses, once he takes an overhand right, hes goin to sleep. I cant imagine jack johnson grappling foreman and then smiling on camera. Can you imagine jack dempsey trying to knock ali out.:owned:

Tyson has my number 6 spot by the way, he would maul jack's ****ty chin. He would blast frazier in one round and he would clock louis's fine wine glass with an overhand right.

In no specifc order:

ali
holmes
foreman
liston
lewis

Rocky was a bully that fought grandfathers and small guys. Joe Frazier is lucky he didnt fight the amount of big punchers that norton did, it would end with the same result. Joe Louis had a ****ty chin, nuff said. I dont want to hear about any excuses, once he takes an overhand right, hes goin to sleep. I cant imagine jack johnson grappling foreman and then smiling on camera. Can you imagine jack dempsey trying to knock ali out.:owned:

Tyson has my number 6 spot by the way, he would maul jack's ****ty chin. He would blast frazier in one round and he would clock louis's fine wine glass with an overhand right.

I suppose that list isn't too bad. Here's mine.

1) Ali
2) Liston
3) Foreman
4) Tyson
5) Louis

Holmes is number 6. He could be number five, but he was suceptible to right hands too much, so I suppose Louis' right would make the difference.

I suppose that list isn't too bad. Here's mine.

1) Ali
2) Liston
3) Foreman
4) Tyson
5) Louis

Holmes is number 6. He could be number five, but he was suceptible to right hands too much, so I suppose Louis' right would make the difference.

Holmes would box foreman's ears off, trust me the larry that would fight george would be at an all time high, when it comes to iq. he would make sure that he would box him and win the decision. Foreman knew it too, george is wise.

Nobody bums of the month contenders were dropping louis, his chin is **** man. I can see tyson being in it and lewis being out though.

Foreman's ears were boxed off by larry's mentor and his wannabe. I dont see foreman landing a right hand good enough to knock larry out. Shavers didnt do it, larry is tough.

Holmes would box foreman's ears off, trust me the larry that would fight george would be at an all time high, when it comes to iq. he would make sure that he would box him and win the decision. Foreman knew it too, george is wise.

Nobody bums of the month contenders were dropping louis, his chin is **** man. I can see tyson being in it and lewis being out though.

I think that eventually Holmes would try to brawl with Foreman, which he always does at some point in a fight, especially if he was hurt. A shot Norton almost beat Holmes, while a prime Norton got destroyed by Foreman, so there you go.

Guys like Buddy Baer and Tony Galento may have been short on boxing skill, but they were extremely powerful men, and getting dropped by them is no real shame. I think Louis' chin is just as good as Lewis'. Louis never got ko'd with one punch like Lewis, and it took a lot of punshment to actually finish him off, if that happened.

I think that eventually Holmes would try to brawl with Foreman, which he always does at some point in a fight, especially if he was hurt. A shot Norton almost beat Holmes, while a prime Norton got destroyed by Foreman, so there you go.

Guys like Buddy Baer and Tony Galento may have been short on boxing skill, but they were extremely powerful men, and getting dropped by them is no real shame. I think Louis' chin is just as good as Lewis'. Louis never got ko'd with one punch like Lewis, and it took a lot of punshment to actually finish him off, if that happened.

norton was shot? That was the best point of his career, after his first ali win. The guy was coming off wins over young, bobick(its like someone beating amir khan right now) and zanon. It was after his fight with holmes, thats when norton became shot. By the way, stylistically norton is good against boxers, i thought you knew that. Joe Frazier is the exact same thing, just pick on guys that cant punch and avoid the big hitters.

norton was shot? That was the best point of his career, after his first ali win. The guy was coming off wins over young, bobick(its like someone beating amir khan right now) and zanon. It was after his fight with holmes, thats when norton became shot. By the way, stylistically norton is good against boxers, i thought you knew that. Joe Frazier is the exact same thing, just pick on guys that cant punch and avoid the big hitters.

Ok, then what about my second paragraph?

Ok, then what about my second paragraph?

I see lennox lewis beating joe frazier, he didnt train properly in his two losses. Remember lennox is a hard hitter, ali ****in put joe in the hospital for 3 weeks. Joe cant take big punches, i see lennox using his reach and blasting frazier. I really dont hold joe in a high regard when it comes to head to head. Joe Louis was out as soon as schmeling clocked him, thats it. He is very vulnerable to the tyson and listons of the world. When Lennox uses his reach properly and doesnt let the man inside, he is great.

In no specifc order:

ali
holmes
foreman
liston
lewis

Rocky was a bully that fought grandfathers and small guys. Joe Frazier is lucky he didnt fight the amount of big punchers that norton did, it would end with the same result. Joe Louis had a ****ty chin, nuff said. I dont want to hear about any excuses, once he takes an overhand right, hes goin to sleep. I cant imagine jack johnson grappling foreman and then smiling on camera. Can you imagine jack dempsey trying to knock ali out.:owned:

Tyson has my number 6 spot by the way, he would maul jack's ****ty chin. He would blast frazier in one round and he would clock louis's fine wine glass with an overhand right.

i think marciano and frazier would both fall to liston but i do think liston would break a sweat!

rocky marciano fought everyone he could during his career he didn;t dodge anyone but he's still not in my top 5 due to being largely untested in his career.
Joe louis may have had a weak chin but almost all the knockdowns i have seen have resulted in him getting up, not looking slightly dazed and going straight back into the action.

i'm not entirely sure that lewis belongs in the top 5 due to his chin but i wouldn't have him lower than 8.

tyson IMO due to a lack of ring intelligence and losing his mental focus i would only rate him at 9 or 10. however physically/technically the only boxer who may have been better was roy jones jr and even he had a weak chin!

holmes also wasn't tested greatly but he was a great boxer and could come back from a big punch to he must be in the top 5.

i havent actually made a top 5 because i don't see how it can be done.

IMO marciano would have stooda pretty good chance against ali but he would have been destroyed by foreman

foreman did destroy frazier but was completely out boxed and KOed by ali.

Holmes would box foreman's ears off, trust me the larry that would fight george would be at an all time high, when it comes to iq. he would make sure that he would box him and win the decision. Foreman knew it too, george is wise.

Nobody bums of the month contenders were dropping louis, his chin is **** man. I can see tyson being in it and lewis being out though.

ali decided early on that he wouldn't last trying to dance away from foreman. so i doubt larry could do it.
larry also couldn't rope-a-dope effectively because he had a softer chin than ali. his recuperation powers were great but they relied on overpowering an opponent while his head cleared, he simply couldn't do this with foreman.

Larry did have a good jab, if he could keep foreman behind it he could easily win on points but i don't think even larry is capable of that.

Jimmy young exposed him for being wild and innaccurate, foreman came back when tyson becomes champ, he wont do it when holmes was champ for 7 years. Larry has always been obsessed with outboxing that fatass, george's own camp knows he cant beat him.

I see lennox lewis beating joe frazier, he didnt train properly in his two losses. Remember lennox is a hard hitter, ali ****in put joe in the hospital for 3 weeks. Joe cant take big punches, i see lennox using his reach and blasting frazier. I really dont hold joe in a high regard when it comes to head to head. Joe Louis was out as soon as schmeling clocked him, thats it. He is very vulnerable to the tyson and listons of the world. When Lennox uses his reach properly and doesnt let the man inside, he is great.

didn't it take 12 or 14 rounds for schemling to beat him b timing his jab when louis was very very green?! this loss was then reverse with a 1st round KO

joe is great head to head most boxers are not at all comfortable inside, their defence suffers and they find it hard to punch. frazier inside still has the power and it makes his head a very difficult target.

the truth is everyone tried to stop frazier getting inside. the only man to succed was foreman and that was by pushing rather than punches

didn't it take 12 or 14 rounds for schemling to beat him b timing his jab when louis was very very green?! this loss was then reverse with a 1st round KO

joe is great head to head most boxers are not at all comfortable inside, their defence suffers and they find it hard to punch. frazier inside still has the power and it makes his head a very difficult target.

the truth is everyone tried to stop frazier getting inside. the only man to succed was foreman and that was by pushing rather than punches

Dude frazier had a very protected title run, you wont belive how many punchers the guy dodged. In his joureyman career before his win over buster mathis, frazier was shook or dropped on several occasion, His chin is very bad. Frazier only looks like a bad ass against boxers.

Frazier was one of the least protected on the way to the title, you dickhead. And how many punchers exactly did he dodge? Please don't mention Earnie Shavers, who was dusted by Jerry Quarry in one round and beaten by others such as Ron Stander and Bob Stallings.

He ducked Liston, but that's it. So what? Foreman ducked Quarry. Bowe ducked Lewis. Holmes ducked Page. Ali ducked Spencer. Lewis only fought Holyfield and Tyson when they were old men.

People like to pull up obscure slugger type boxers from Frazier's era and claim that Frazier ducked them. You'll hear names like Leotis Martin, Mac Foster, Alvin Lewis, Amos Lincoln, etc.

Martin lost to Floyd McCoy, Jimmy Ellis, Roger Russell, Henry Clark, and Oscar Bonavena. Lewis lost to Bonavena, Martin, and Bob Stallings. Hmm, maybe Frazier ducked Bob Stallings, since Stallings beat all these guys? Stallings had a 32-31 career record. Amos Lincoln was losing every other fight by the time Frazier hit his stride. Thad Spencer, Buster Mathis, Tony Doyle, Terry Daniels, old Liston, all beat him.

Mac Foster would have been a good fight for Frazier to take in '69 or early '70, but he was still beaten by Quarry, and later would lose to, who else, but Bob Stallings.

Dude frazier had a very protected title run, you wont belive how many punchers the guy dodged. In his joureyman career before his win over buster mathis, frazier was shook or dropped on several occasion, His chin is very bad. Frazier only looks like a bad ass against boxers.

name a few?

quarry certainly hit hard. lyle and shavers were neverin position for a title shot while frazier was champ i cannot think of anyone else but foreman.

I will stick to fighters I actually saw...

Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Holyfeild
Lewis
Frazier
Tyson

In that order...

1 ali
2 tyson
3 lewis
4 holmes
5 louis
6 liston
7 foreman
8 holyroid
9 bowe
10 jack johson

I will stick to fighters I actually saw...

Ali
Holmes
Foreman
Holyfeild
Lewis
Frazier
Tyson

In that order...

how can you put holy above lewis?
lewis beat lewis once and should have beaten him twice

My top 10 heavyweight list is:
1. Joe Louis
2. Muhammad Ali
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
Elite---------------------------Elite
5. Jack Johnson
6. Jack Dempsey
7. Gene Tunney
8. Joe Frazier
9. Sonny Liston
10. George Foreman

Joe Louis wasn't as "glass" as people make him out to be. I guess his 69 wins with only 3 losses would tell us so. One loss was in the late rounds of a fight when he was green yet, and the other two came when he was a hundred years old. If it was so easy to put him out, then everybody would have been attempting to do so after his first fight with Schmeling. Unfortunately for them, Joe was adept at recovering from a strong punch only to blast his opponent into submission with perfect inside technical boxing. Oh yeah, and his punches weren't cupcakes either.

Frazier was champ during a very brief hiccup in the division's glory years, right before the golden 70's took off. His was a style that wasn't meant to last, however, so he never really came back after his loss to Foreman. Saying that the man had a weak chin, however, is borderline retarded. The man got blasted by George Foreman repeatedly and was dizzy before his chin gave out; heck, he even got back up five times. The man could take a beating. Any fighter who would have taken the first 4 rounds from Ali that he took in the Fight of the Century would have been out cold.

I think that Tyson fares better in head-to-head matchups than does Foreman, as Foreman stood a chance of being outboxed by a lot of great fighters. The Tyson version 1.0 (a la Rooney) would have stood a technical chance to overcome or simply mow down most champs in history. He even stands a chance to defeat guys like Foreman or Liston where Frazier would have failed simply because Mike fought at mid range, and he could beat them to the punch.

Ali does very well against any era in history, as very few of them contained counterpunchers who could handle his movement.

I think that a fight with Holmes and Foreman would be amazing. Larry liked to entice his opponents to punch, lean away from it, and then hammer a quick, responsive right hand that shook them. This could become very frustrating for Foreman who, as in his fight with Ali, started to position his gloves defensively after being poked a few times. Holmes could also dish out a little more punishment than could Ali, and like against Young, Foreman might just give up.

Lennox Lewis was certainly a great heavyweight, though he never really fought anyone of consequence until they were way beyond their best years. Nonetheless, a guy with his size and skill would stand a chance against nearly anyone on the other side of the ring. The whole Vitali thing was a freaking shame, though.

Rocky Marciano may not have been tested much, but that could also be because he was a.) that good; or b.) had the determination to simply will his way on his opponents no matter if they were outboxing him; or c.) both a.) and b.) in which case, he's a great champion anyway.

And yes, Gene Tunney had more than 80 wins, one loss, and two draws. That's why I put him on my top 10 (11) list. Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Floyd Patterson, Sam Langford, etc., all round out the top 15, which is really just an extension of the top 10.

Originally posted by butterfly1964
I think that eventually Holmes would try to brawl with Foreman, which he always does at some point in a fight, especially if he was hurt. A shot Norton almost beat Holmes, while a prime Norton got destroyed by Foreman, so there you go.

Elementary, my friend. You of all people should know that this logic almost NEVER applies to boxing, or sports in general.

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Larry Holmes
3. Sonny Liston
4. Lennox Lewis
5. George Foreman
6. Jack Johnson
7. Joe Louis
8. Gene Tunney
9. Rocky Marciano
10. Jack Dempsey

Joe Louis wasn't as "glass" as people make him out to be. I guess his 69 wins with only 3 losses would tell us so. One loss was in the late rounds of a fight when he was green yet, and the other two came when he was a hundred years old. If it was so easy to put him out, then everybody would have been attempting to do so after his first fight with Schmeling. Unfortunately for them, Joe was adept at recovering from a strong punch only to blast his opponent into submission with perfect inside technical boxing. Oh yeah, and his punches weren't cupcakes either.

Frazier was champ during a very brief hiccup in the division's glory years, right before the golden 70's took off. His was a style that wasn't meant to last, however, so he never really came back after his loss to Foreman. Saying that the man had a weak chin, however, is borderline retarded. The man got blasted by George Foreman repeatedly and was dizzy before his chin gave out; heck, he even got back up five times. The man could take a beating. Any fighter who would have taken the first 4 rounds from Ali that he took in the Fight of the Century would have been out cold.

I think that Tyson fares better in head-to-head matchups than does Foreman, as Foreman stood a chance of being outboxed by a lot of great fighters. The Tyson version 1.0 (a la Rooney) would have stood a technical chance to overcome or simply mow down most champs in history. He even stands a chance to defeat guys like Foreman or Liston where Frazier would have failed simply because Mike fought at mid range, and he could beat them to the punch.

Ali does very well against any era in history, as very few of them contained counterpunchers who could handle his movement.

I think that a fight with Holmes and Foreman would be amazing. Larry liked to entice his opponents to punch, lean away from it, and then hammer a quick, responsive right hand that shook them. This could become very frustrating for Foreman who, as in his fight with Ali, started to position his gloves defensively after being poked a few times. Holmes could also dish out a little more punishment than could Ali, and like against Young, Foreman might just give up.

Lennox Lewis was certainly a great heavyweight, though he never really fought anyone of consequence until they were way beyond their best years. Nonetheless, a guy with his size and skill would stand a chance against nearly anyone on the other side of the ring. The whole Vitali thing was a freaking shame, though.

Rocky Marciano may not have been tested much, but that could also be because he was a.) that good; or b.) had the determination to simply will his way on his opponents no matter if they were outboxing him; or c.) both a.) and b.) in which case, he's a great champion anyway.

And yes, Gene Tunney had more than 80 wins, one loss, and two draws. That's why I put him on my top 10 (11) list. Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, Floyd Patterson, Sam Langford, etc., all round out the top 15, which is really just an extension of the top 10.



Elementary, my friend. You of all people should know that this logic almost NEVER applies to boxing, or sports in general.

How many heavyweights has gene tunney actually beat? You say lennox was the master of fighting guys when they were past it. Wake up, none of rocky's opponents were in their primes.

Lennox Lewis has easily defeated enough ranked heavyweights to make a top 10. You just look at tunney's record, you dont go in depth and realize he has like 5 or 6 heavyweight fights in total.:nonono:

Oh yeah, and top 5 head-to-head:

1. Muhammad Ali
Mike Tyson
-I firmly believe, after watching many tapes, training sessions, etc. of these two, that they would probably win more head-to-heads than any other; also, they would put on an amazing show against each other. Both had blazing fast hand speed, while Mike's skill and reflexes were better than Foreman, Frazier, or Shavers, and Rooney would have had Mike ready to be a stone cold killer regardless of Ali's mind games. Ali would have shown us his will to dominate no matter what the odds, and would have had to adapt on the fly against this completely different opponent. Time and again he proved capable of this, so I think it would go back and forth into the championship rounds. I have started a series of drawings depicting this by the way.

2. Larry Holmes
3. Sonny Liston
4. Joe Louis
5. Lennox Lewis

Lennox Lewis has easily defeated enough ranked heavyweights to make a top 10. You just look at tunney's record, you dont go in depth and realize he has like 5 or 6 heavyweight fights in total.

I was answering a question for somebody who asked earlier about his record; also, Gene Tunney had an incredible brain for the sport to figure out fighters. The fruition of this comes together mainly in his fights with the great Jack Dempsey. Oh yeah, and Dempsey, at the times of his fights against Tunney, was far better than anyone Lewis beat beyond their primes, and certainly better than anyone Lewis lost to.

Lewis beat a Holyfield who should have been out of the game years before, and a Tyson 3.5, who stood like a sack of sand getting punched, spouting rediculous comments at press conferences and biting people. Lewis lost to Rahman...seriously. He avenged it, true, but Marciano never lost. He fought all the contenders of his day, and that's not easy. I don't care how good or memorable the names were, he simply put them all away.

The fighters of old aren't automatically better or favored compared to those of recent years, but they did walk more difficult paths. They used to fight more than 100 fights in their careers, spanning 15+ years and several weight classes. Throw in 5-6 exhibitions a year and you'd be one tired cookie. The training was non-stop, not just the few months leading up to an over-promoted fight, and fighters used to study the science of the punch instead of simply throwing them. They were generally more prepared and seasoned than fighters of recent years.

This holds for many sports. American football, for example: in the old days, some rough and tumble guy would work 12 hours at the steel mill, and then go to football practice where he'd get slammed into by a bunch of huge guys while wearing only sweaters and leather helmets. And at game time, they played both sides of the ball. Todays players don't go through that at all. They are so protected; which, while smart, simply means that all the athelticism in the world doesn't make up for the shape the old timers got into, nor the work ethic. They were always better prepared, and didn't hold out or try less during game time because they want an extra $7 million a year.

Boxers have become the same way; they want the easy road (ie: fewer fights), to millions of dollars, while being extremely lazy during their time off. The old time fighters worked other jobs, risking injury, and yet always found time through the exhaustion to get into phenomenal shape physically, mentally, and scientifically. While athleticism and brawn can sometimes simply overpower an opponent, any fighter from way back stands just as good of a chance as those from today.

*WHEW!* Quite a rant.

I was answering a question for somebody who asked earlier about his record; also, Gene Tunney had an incredible brain for the sport to figure out fighters. The fruition of this comes together mainly in his fights with the great Jack Dempsey. Oh yeah, and Dempsey, at the times of his fights against Tunney, was far better than anyone Lewis beat beyond their primes, and certainly better than anyone Lewis lost to.

Lewis beat a Holyfield who should have been out of the game years before, and a Tyson 3.5, who stood like a sack of sand getting punched, spouting rediculous comments at press conferences and biting people. Lewis lost to Rahman...seriously. He avenged it, true, but Marciano never lost. He fought all the contenders of his day, and that's not easy. I don't care how good or memorable the names were, he simply put them all away.

The fighters of old aren't automatically better or favored compared to those of recent years, but they did walk more difficult paths. They used to fight more than 100 fights in their careers, spanning 15+ years and several weight classes. Throw in 5-6 exhibitions a year and you'd be one tired cookie. The training was non-stop, not just the few months leading up to an over-promoted fight, and fighters used to study the science of the punch instead of simply throwing them. They were generally more prepared and seasoned than fighters of recent years.

This holds for many sports. American football, for example: in the old days, some rough and tumble guy would work 12 hours at the steel mill, and then go to football practice where he'd get slammed into by a bunch of huge guys while wearing only sweaters and leather helmets. And at game time, they played both sides of the ball. Todays players don't go through that at all. They are so protected; which, while smart, simply means that all the athelticism in the world doesn't make up for the shape the old timers got into, nor the work ethic. They were always better prepared, and didn't hold out or try less during game time because they want an extra $7 million a year.

Boxers have become the same way; they want the easy road (ie: fewer fights), to millions of dollars, while being extremely lazy during their time off. The old time fighters worked other jobs, risking injury, and yet always found time through the exhaustion to get into phenomenal shape physically, mentally, and scientifically. While athleticism and brawn can sometimes simply overpower an opponent, any fighter from way back stands just as good of a chance as those from today.

*WHEW!* Quite a rant.

Yes, it was.