I have read some of his poems from his book and read the lyrics and dude ain't all that great when it comes to rhyming or putting **** together..
for example:
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

**** like that... Poetically thats not really good at all... and another thing is when Tupac talks about thug life and slanging drugs being a gangster or what not.. You look at his criminal record and he really didn't have one until around the time he got with death row.. so hes being fake by depicting himself in an image that he never was... I didn't know that Biggie did this also I just found that out too.

i wont give it to u but u will get flamed and the red stuff

It's what he says tho.........he is amazing especially when you think that he died at 25 and still made this kind of impact.......

i wont give it to u but u will get flamed and the red stuff
I don't really care about red karma... But it seems the beats make the artist more than the literature. take this for example...

The Rose that Grew from Concrete by: 2Pac----------"When ur Heart Turns Cold". When ur heart turns cold, it causes ur soul to freeze Its spreads throughout ur spirit, like a ruthless feeling disease. The walls that once were down, now stand firm and tall Safe 4rm hate/love, pain/joy, until u feel nothing at all. When ur heart turns cold, a baby's cry means nothing A dead corpse is trival, parents neglecting children is daily Loneliness becomes ur routine friend, Death seems like tranquility sleeping is never pleasant, if u even sleep at all u forget ideals and turn off the reason 2 make sure the product gets sold, you don't understand how I behave, Just wait till ur heart turns Cold!

I know all the little e-thugs are gonna flame me but I don't care im just stating my opinions on a rapper I think is very over-rated.

this is poetry:

Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play
Before fiberglass
Before parquet
Before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J"
And ballrooms were ballcourts where the Renaissance played
Before the hype and before the dunk
After the rhythm but before the funk
Before the money and before the fame
Before new school and old school
Before school had a name
It was only a ball and the soul of the game

Thats something Mos Def did for a converse commercial. How ill is that? and its just for a commercial!

I see your point a bit but can you think of anyone.......in any business or form of entertainment or anywhere that made the impact he did on more than one generation and went through all the **** he did and died at 25?He is not overrated he is an Icon and had plenty of great songs and Poems that will live forever.........but if thats your opinion you have that right to think it.

I see your point a bit but can you think of anyone.......in any business or form of entertainment or anywhere that made the impact he did on more than one generation and went through all the **** he did and died at 25?He is not overrated he is an Icon and had plenty of great songs and Poems that will live forever.........but if thats your opinion you have that right to think it.
In the rap game....No, but in music as a whole theres Sid Vicious, Jimmi Hendrix, Aaliyah and others but they were famous for other things.. But mainly what my focus on this thread is lyrically...people act like lyrically Pac could not be ****ed with and was one of the best poets and its not true.

Every one is entitled to their own opinion. I on one hand totally disagree with your statements. I didn't see a problem with the lyrics you posted. But I say this I am a fan because of his lyrics, flow. and song making abilities. I mean his first two albums were filled with as much consciousness as some rappers have had their whole career. Not that this matters but he shot at a cop in Oakland before he was on Death Row. Again criminal records are irrelevant in rap. As far as being overrated I don't think so. He material speaks for itself. He never had to say he was one of the greatest it was just given to him and deservingly so. So many rappers were influenced by him. I mean I can't go through an artist catalogue without a 2pac reference. And Pac was laying down classic material before Death Row beats. Not bashing you your opinion is just as meaningful as anyone elses. Who are some of your favorite artist?

In the rap game....No, but in music as a whole theres Sid Vicious, Jimmi Hendrix, Aaliyah and others but they were famous for other things.. But mainly what my focus on this thread is lyrically...people act like lyrically Pac could not be ****ed with and was one of the best poets and its not true.

Huh? Not the same breath as Pac.

Lyrically it was his content ,passion and voice that made him special.Many have better flow and more diverse lyrics no doubt but Pac was very special no matter at least to me...........He is my favorite ever I have him hanging in my living room and I am almost 20 years old......he had an impact on my life at crzay times in my life and I am sure many others can relate but like I said you have a right to think the way you do I just disagree and am stating it diplomatically.:D

God forbid you don't like an MC on these boards! Be prepared son!

Every one is entitled to their own opinion. I on one hand totally disagree with your statements. I didn't see a problem with the lyrics you posted. But I say this I am a fan because of his lyrics, flow. and song making abilities. I mean his first two albums were filled with as much consciousness as some rappers have had their whole career. Not that this matters but he shot at a cop in Oakland before he was on Death Row. Again criminal records are irrelevant in rap. As far as being overrated I don't think so. He material speaks for itself. He never had to say he was one of the greatest it was just given to him and deservingly so. So many rappers were influenced by him. I mean I can't go through an artist catalogue without a 2pac reference. And Pac was laying down classic material before Death Row beats. Not bashing you your opinion is just as meaningful as anyone elses. Who are some of your favorite artist?
I actually don't listen to alot of rap.. I like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kwali I have heard some of their music and like it because of what they speak and because they have some good messages... unlike Dead Prez who just blast ignorance into a mic.. (I'm basing this of the Lets Get Free album my homie let me borrow). I listen to 60s 70s, punk, metal, rock, spanish music and some hip hop also like to read poetry and the literature behind music. Nas is good in hip hop and Immortal Technique I like because he is crazy... Some of them don't have great lyrics either but they aren't put on an altar. Who else... I used to like NWA when I was in middle school and some of that west coast gangster rap...even though their lyrics were't all that either..who would you recomend LYRICALLY. Don't matter the beats.

Huh? Not the same breath as Pac.

Lyrically it was his content ,passion and voice that made him special.Many have better flow and more diverse lyrics no doubt but Pac was very special no matter at least to me...........He is my favorite ever I have him hanging in my living room and I am almost 20 years old......he had an impact on my life at crzay times in my life and I am sure many others can relate but like I said you have a right to think the way you do I just disagree and am stating it diplomatically.:D
I also used to like Wu-Tang, DMX and stuff like that.... Theres nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.


ROY JONES...BEST RAPPER ALIVE!!! Ya'll must have forgot!! :D LOL J/K

I also used to like Wu-Tang, DMX and stuff like that.... Theres nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.


ROY JONES...BEST RAPPER ALIVE!!! Ya'll must have forgot!! :D LOL J/K

Yeah man cool no doubt.

Tupac admits himself that being a gangsta wasnt his thing. He tried selling drugs for a week and got his ass beat for mouthing off to another guy. He even went to a performing arts school. If you watch Tupac Ressurection you get a good idea of his vision. His goal was to rap about the hood so that people would realize what was going on in the streets. So people would pay attention to the gang violence, teen pregnancies, rapes, etc.

He was actually very political. After all his mom was a black panther. And regarding his poetry, its very good imo. His songs arent really poems per se. The only one I know for sure that was a poem was Dear Mama because I saw the letter in which he wrote it in. The song which you gave as an example is probably my favorite song of all time. Its not a poem, its a song. It was written that way to flow with the beat, so it sounds different when you read it without having the song in your head. I have his book of poetry around here somewhere and its completely different. Its much more artistic.

His songs werent always great lyrically, I will agree there. But when Pac was on, he was unbelievable.

I actually don't listen to alot of rap.. I like Common, Mos Def and Talib Kwali I have heard some of their music and like it because of what they speak and because they have some good messages... unlike Dead Prez who just blast ignorance into a mic.. (I'm basing this of the Lets Get Free album my homie let me borrow). I listen to 60s 70s, punk, metal, rock, spanish music and some hip hop also like to read poetry and the literature behind music. Nas is good in hip hop and Immortal Technique I like because he is crazy... Some of them don't have great lyrics either but they aren't put on an altar. Who else... I used to like NWA when I was in middle school and some of that west coast gangster rap...even though their lyrics were't all that either..who would you recomend LYRICALLY. Don't matter the beats.

As far as consious rap you cant go wrong with the rappers you listed. Common, Mos Def, and Kweli are among my favorite artists. Pharoe Monch is another unbelievable MC I would recomend.

Tupac admits himself that being a gangsta wasnt his thing. He tried selling drugs for a week and got his ass beat for mouthing off to another guy. He even went to a performing arts school. If you watch Tupac Ressurection you get a good idea of his vision. His goal was to rap about the hood so that people would realize what was going on in the streets. So people would pay attention to the gang violence, teen pregnancies, rapes, etc.

He was actually very political. After all his mom was a black panther. And regarding his poetry, its very good imo. His songs arent really poems per se. The only one I know for sure that was a poem was Dear Mama because I saw the letter in which he wrote it in. The song which you gave as an example is probably my favorite song of all time. Its not a poem, its a song. It was written that way to flow with the beat, so it sounds different when you read it without having the song in your head. I have his book of poetry around here somewhere and its completely different. Its much more artistic.

His songs werent always great lyrically, I will agree there. But when Pac was on, he was unbelievable.
I feel like his message was with good intention but he didn't express it the right way because now todays generation looks at Pac and they don't look at him as a politically conscious rapper... Alot of dudes idolise him and because of his music think some of the **** is alright or cool to do and wanna be just like him.. Music has influence on people believe it or not..Of course Music isn't gonna make you wanna kill someone...unless you real ignorant but it affects people in a good or a bad way and a lot of people.. in fact the majority interpret his lyrics the wrong way.. But he sold out... THATS WHY I ****ED YOUR ***** YOU FAT MOTHER****ER!!! <--- **** like that ruined his cred as a political rapper and completely ****ed his message all up.. Too me he started his career of with probabley good intention but he was a sell out!

Um starting with 2pac you should try and listen to Me Against The World. That albumhas some real deep songs. And also Strictly For My *****Z and and 2pacalypse Now. Those albums are Pac's more conscious lyrical songs. And if you don't atleast listen to If I Die Tonite real poetic rhyme scheme really sick.

Other than Pac Common's Like Water For Chocolate is really dope. And The Roots Things Fall Apart. And straight lyrical listen to Canibus Mic Club Curriculum. He's really talented but some don't like his direction with his lyrics but you'll like some of it. The Gza Liquid Swords
Nas Illmatic/ It Was Written
Jay-Z- Reasonable Doubt
Rakim- The 18th Letter
Outkast- ATLiens/ Aquemeni
Any Chino XL material his lyrics really go hard.
Ras Kass- Soul On Ice
Ice Cube- Amerikkka's Most Wanted

Just a few

I feel like his message was with good intention but he didn't express it the right way because now todays generation looks at Pac and they don't look at him as a politically conscious rapper... Alot of dudes idolise him and because of his music think some of the **** is alright or cool to do and wanna be just like him.. Music has influence on people believe it or not..Of course Music isn't gonna make you wanna kill someone...unless you real ignorant but it affects people in a good or a bad way and a lot of people.. in fact the majority interpret his lyrics the wrong way.. But he sold out... THATS WHY I ****ED YOUR ***** YOU FAT MOTHER****ER!!! <--- **** like that ruined his cred as a political rapper and completely ****ed his message all up.. Too me he started his career of with probabley good intention but he was a sell out!

That was when he started becoming a different person. It was like he was becoming what he wrote about. I mean the intention was all for money and fame. He loved to be the center of attention. Unfortunalty it might have been what killed him. Ill say it, he was an arrogant, troubled person, but he was also an intelligant, talented, complex individual.

That was when he started becoming a different person. It was like he was becoming what he wrote about. I mean the intention was all for money and fame. He loved to be the center of attention. Unfortunalty it might have been what killed him. Ill say it, he was an arrogant, troubled person, but he was also an intelligant, talented, complex individual.

Yup.........

I have read some of his poems from his book and read the lyrics and dude ain't all that great when it comes to rhyming or putting **** together..
for example:
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

**** like that... Poetically thats not really good at all... and another thing is when Tupac talks about thug life and slanging drugs being a gangster or what not.. You look at his criminal record and he really didn't have one until around the time he got with death row.. so hes being fake by depicting himself in an image that he never was... I didn't know that Biggie did this also I just found that out too.
Actually those lyrics are real and poetic...

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Actually those lyrics are real and poetic...

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I wasnt aware he had it as a poem. Good find man. Great stuff.

this is poetry:

Before Mr. Taylor taught the world to play
Before fiberglass
Before parquet
Before the word "Doctor" was spelled with a "J"
And ballrooms were ballcourts where the Renaissance played
Before the hype and before the dunk
After the rhythm but before the funk
Before the money and before the fame
Before new school and old school
Before school had a name
It was only a ball and the soul of the game

Thats something Mos Def did for a converse commercial. How ill is that? and its just for a commercial!


How can you say Mos Def is a better poet than 2pac? He might use bigger worlds and more multi's or whatever but to alot of people that aint gonna mean ****.

How can you say Mos Def is a better poet than 2pac? He might use bigger worlds and more multi's or whatever but to alot of people that aint gonna mean ****.
he uses bigger worlds??? Like what?? Planet Jupiter? :D

I wasnt aware he had it as a poem. Good find man. Great stuff.
Its ¨Keep Ya Head Up¨ no?

its not how he said it, and what the hell is wrong with this :

And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

When was the last time you seen a "gangster rapper" talk about how good we should treat women, he did this alot, he talked about how we should treat women,our mothers and all the **** that is wrong with the world, and no1 has ever done this before and no1 ever will, piddy talks about his money and everythin hes bought with it, biggie talked about how broke he was when really he was one of the richier kids on his block and ppl would go to his house to play because he had more money than them( and that is takin from biggies mum on a doc i seen) 50cent talks about the same ****, ohh dnt **** with 50 cos he has big arms n a gay group called gunit, the game wants to **** dr dre, snoop has went so pop they should call him uncle poppy instead of uncle snoopy, jay-z "oh, huh, oh huh, thats jay-z next song called...oh, mr ceo...kanye west ohh he dropped out of college WE GET IT....2pac, talks about the ppl he has beef with, how to treat the women in our lifes,our mums,wats wrong with the world, changes that should be made etc etc, man if he was overrated or not, HE WAS THE BEST, no one can touch him in rap

and how gives a **** if he dont hav a police record, id like him more if he wasnt actually a thug, and by the way, most guys that call themself thugs, dnt hav records, because they play the system and no one really no's who they are because they are small time thugs

I have read some of his poems from his book and read the lyrics and dude ain't all that great when it comes to rhyming or putting **** together..
for example:
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

**** like that... Poetically thats not really good at all... and another thing is when Tupac talks about thug life and slanging drugs being a gangster or what not.. You look at his criminal record and he really didn't have one until around the time he got with death row.. so hes being fake by depicting himself in an image that he never was... I didn't know that Biggie did this also I just found that out too.

Thats one of Pacs best songs,what he was speeking about is real,he couldent of said it any better,thats a real deep DEEP lyric,in my book thats poetry,and no way is Pac overrated,the messeges he sent were amazing,2pac is my favorite rapper of all time,he was a powerful figure

Its ¨Keep Ya Head Up¨ no?

Yeah it is. My favorite song of his by far.

Brendas got a baby...another deep song.

Oh yeah I cant forget about the deepest of them all....

Its all about you :D

2Pac's catalog is deep enough that you could put a 12-song disc out that would make him appear to be a lyrically-concentrated poetic rapper. You could also make a disc or two to make him look like garbage. Picking 20 lines out of his entire life's work and using it as evidence he is overrated isn't appropriate. 2Pac didn't use tricky wordplay or imagery in his music. What he did do, and what very few artists since him have been able to do, was to translate emotion from a "thug" to the listening public onto a song and it actually be received.

Maybe he's overrated because many people believe he is #1 all time; that means that if he's anything but #1 he's overrated.

Still, I never hear anyone rave about Pac's lyrical delivery or freestyle ability or tricky wordplay - it was about feeling, emotion, depth, and personality.

And if you're moved by a Converse commercial jingle, I'm not sure you're a poetic authority either...

if pac was just an attention Whore I don't think he would have written many of the songs that he did. For example, the classic that everyone has just been talking about. Also drug dealers are nothing to look up to anway but I think you have your facts wrong about Biggie.

Brendas got a baby...another deep song.

Oh yeah I cant forget about the deepest of them all....

Its all about you :D

Deepest of them all Dear Mama,every1 can relate 2 that

And to the original poster,Keep Ya Head Up is a deep song,if u dont like it den u dnt understand where hes coming from,because what hes saying is 100% true,no1 could of put it together the way he did

mannn..... tupac was and will be one of the best rappers that ever lived..

you have to look at what he achieved his legacy and the influence he had on every one...

he spoke about topics and stuff that no-one would rap about... you can't come up with 10 lines of a track and say look at those rubbish lyrics........

if pac was just an attention Whore


spot on.


2 pac was deep? then what is common? the mariana trech?


What he did do, and what very few artists since him have been able to do, was to translate emotion from a "thug"


thug and emotion are basically oxymorons. a seasoned thug is emotionless.

mannn..... tupac was and will be one of the best rappers that ever lived..


highly opinionated. but's it's your opinion. just don't claim it as fact.


he spoke about topics and stuff that no-one would rap about... you can't come up with 10 lines of a track and say look at those rubbish lyrics........

can't come up with 10 lines of rubbish? what the **** ever! i'm not even going to touch this. people know better.

can't come up with 10 lines of rubbish? what the **** ever! i'm not even going to touch this. people know better.


what u on about.........:thinking:

i was merely stating what the topic starter presented, he put down pac's verse and claimed he was over-rated, i'm couldnt give a rats arse what he thinks because it's his opinion, but what i said was you can't judge or claim a rapper jus by puttin down one of his verses which sum may hav found boring or not lyrical enough......:headbang:

was merely stating what the topic starter presented, he put down pac's verse and claimed he was over-rated, i'm couldnt give a rats arse what he thinks because it's his opinion, but what i said was you can't judge or claim a rapper jus by puttin down one of his verses which sum may hav found boring or not lyrical enou


OK, fair enough. i just thought you were being another one of 2 pac's typical overenthusiastic nuthugging fans. apologies if i misunderstood.

but he did and they was still hot, Changes


Pac is unique, original,


lol. sorry, but i can't stop laughing right now. i apologize.

see, you are mentioning the song "changes" by 2 pac and then mention him being unique and original.

point # 1. the song "changes" by 2 pac is in fact 75 to 80% bruce hornsby's "the way it is". the melody is so similar it is a little hard to tell them apart when i first hear whichever one on the radio. the lyrics, well, they are really the same as well.

point # 2 is that a giant portion of the beats 2 pac raps over are nothing more than the raw tracks of older songs. many artists do this as well. but, many are so similar and unchanged, sometimes i hear the first 15/20 seconds of a song and i'm not sure whether to expect a thug life song or an isley brothers tune.

2 pac made an enourmas impact on many different fields of the entertainment industry, but let's not make him out to be a god.

now, george clinton is a god.

Thats one of Pacs best songs,what he was speeking about is real,he couldent of said it any better,thats a real deep DEEP lyric,in my book thats poetry,and no way is Pac overrated,the messeges he sent were amazing,2pac is my favorite rapper of all time,he was a powerful figure
but it doesn't really rhyme..he rimes mother with mother with mother...wtf?? lol

2Pac's catalog is deep enough that you could put a 12-song disc out that would make him appear to be a lyrically-concentrated poetic rapper. You could also make a disc or two to make him look like garbage. Picking 20 lines out of his entire life's work and using it as evidence he is overrated isn't appropriate. 2Pac didn't use tricky wordplay or imagery in his music. What he did do, and what very few artists since him have been able to do, was to translate emotion from a "thug" to the listening public onto a song and it actually be received.

Maybe he's overrated because many people believe he is #1 all time; that means that if he's anything but #1 he's overrated.

Still, I never hear anyone rave about Pac's lyrical delivery or freestyle ability or tricky wordplay - it was about feeling, emotion, depth, and personality.

And if you're moved by a Converse commercial jingle, I'm not sure you're a poetic authority either...
What im saying is even a converse commercial rhymed more than his lyrics... he rhymes pappy with unhappy, women with women, babies with babies, make one with creat one, get up and head up... he did get his message across but im saying his lyrics weren't great.

While the aura of Tupac as some kind of prophet on earth is overrated, I have long been a fan of his music. I understand that he was not on par lyrically with many great MCs but he rapped with a passion that I felt. His intensity and emphatic delivery is what I think grabs so many people.

He also rhymed effortlessly. Its like you get the sense he could write a book report for history class and rhyme the whole thing and it would make complete sense.

but it doesn't really rhyme..he rimes mother with mother with mother...wtf?? lol

You can write a poem in blank verse and it can still be considered poetry. Also he does rhyme, hes just not using end rhyme. And like I said before, when you hear it recited it sounds much better.

Some people may not feel him. But I believe he was very lyrical. Just because someone uses big words does not make them lyrical. I think that's a mistake people make. Your vocabulary can only take you so far you still have to take those supposed "big words" and make sense out of them. There are a lot of rappers who spew big words out and don't say ****. I think he's idolized because so many people can relate to him. But if you don't think he's lyrical that's all good we always need difference of opinions or else there wouldn't be **** to talk about.

you are so full of ****.

Tupac is The Greatest of all time.

I have read some of his poems from his book and read the lyrics and dude ain't all that great when it comes to rhyming or putting **** together..
for example:
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

**** like that... Poetically thats not really good at all... and another thing is when Tupac talks about thug life and slanging drugs being a gangster or what not.. You look at his criminal record and he really didn't have one until around the time he got with death row.. so hes being fake by depicting himself in an image that he never was... I didn't know that Biggie did this also I just found that out too.

you are so full of ****.

Tupac is The Greatest of all time.
??? some one go get the dunce cap please!! :dunce:

but it doesn't really rhyme..he rimes mother with mother with mother...wtf?? lol

If ud understand music,the words BEFORE women rhymes u idiot,"got our NAME from a women,our GAME from a women"etc,damn sum ppl dnt no ****,go play table tennis u geek

If ud understand music,the words BEFORE women rhymes u idiot,"got our NAME from a women,our GAME from a women"etc,damn sum people don't no ****,go play table tennis u geek
Dude called me a geek... LMFAO!! he deserves a dunce cap also.. Don't even know me.. I did say no flaming, Anyway squabbles over the internet don't mean **** and usually "Geeks" are the ones starting them.. Dude don't understand what no flaming is so I'm not even gonna bother with him or address him directly

He does have a point though. That was a stupid thing to say Sincity.

spot on.


2 pac was deep? then what is common? the mariana trech?





thug and emotion are basically oxymorons. a seasoned thug is emotionless.

Well pac is important because of his unique function. Everyone is not going to get Common (and i think he's a great rapper by the way) . Pac gets into essential matters of life on a level that allows certain people to connect who wouldn't really respond to those more metaphorical rappers. Also Common dosen't touch on the same matters as he does. A seasoned thug supresses his emotion because of continual hurt and destroyed expectations. Inside he is still a human being. That was Tupac's point, that there is still a human being there and if you could reach it, there would be just as much emotion there as in anyone else. People are not born with the capacity to kill and maim without a second thought. Actually I was never really a big fan of his music, i have always seen him as more of an activist than a rapper.

I have read some of his poems from his book and read the lyrics and dude ain't all that great when it comes to rhyming or putting **** together..
for example:
You know it makes me unhappy (what's that)
When brothas make babies, and leave a young mother to be a pappy
And since we all came from a woman
Got our name from a woman and our game from a woman
I wonder why we take from our women
Why we rape our women, do we hate our women?
I think it's time to kill for our women
Time to heal our women, be real to our women
And if we don't we'll have a race of babies
That will hate the ladies, that make the babies
And since a man can't make one
He has no right to tell a woman when and where to create one
So will the real men get up
I know you're fed up ladies, but keep your head up

**** like that... Poetically thats not really good at all... and another thing is when Tupac talks about thug life and slanging drugs being a gangster or what not.. You look at his criminal record and he really didn't have one until around the time he got with death row.. so hes being fake by depicting himself in an image that he never was... I didn't know that Biggie did this also I just found that out too.

I've not read all of this post but if by Thug LIfe you thought he was talking about being a "gangsta" and dealing drugs and other **** then you really dont know what he meant. Infact in the film Tupac Resurrection it tells you exactly what he meant by thug life and that when he rapped about dealing drugs and police beatings he was talking about stories from his peers not personal experience.

I've not read all of this post but if by Thug LIfe you thought he was talking about being a "gangsta" and dealing drugs and other **** then you really dont know what he meant. Infact in the film Tupac Resurrection it tells you exactly what he meant by thug life and that when he rapped about dealing drugs and police beatings he was talking about stories from his peers not personal experience.

Very good point his songs had a purpose. He wrote Wonder Why They Call You ***** for Deloris Tucker. He was very outspoken and could back up his arguments with his music.

Have you guys heard 'Words to my first born'? That song is tight...One of my favorites!!!

Maybe I am getting the wrong image of Tupac I dunno but I see the Tupac kids try to emulate today and want to be like.. They don't listen to the message they don't take the songs as stories they think that ****s real and its cool to be like the **** he talks about in songs.. Ive seen so many wanna be Pacs its not even funny!

Its the way Pac said things, to me thats what made him special. His flow was very strong...

rapped with a passion that I felt. His intensity and emphatic delivery is what I think grabs so many people.
.

Yup. Thats what I'm talking about. It not so much his lyrics(although they weren't bad), but the way he said them.

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Infact in the film Tupac Resurrection it tells you exactly what he meant by thug life and that when he rapped about dealing drugs and police beatings he was talking about stories from his peers not personal experience.


well, i hope you don't take that perspective to all of 2pac's work.

personally, i am not influenced by most of that post-death **** that came out on 2pac portraying him as some kind of ****ing poetic saint who was anti violence and such.

pac to me is the greatest......i can jam his music i guess because i can relate to a bunch of stuff he was saying......not many rappers out there can do that.....even now im always jammin "it aint easy" from me against the world......

I can see if someone says Pac was not that great but, it is so obvious he had a major impact in the game and influenced so many artist. I don't praise him as a political figure but atleast he the sense to say somethin. He had substance some dudes never touch on what's really important.

wassup with people saying 2pac was a poet?

all rappers to a degree are poetic.

I think he was overrated as well.

So was Biggie.

Shoot me.

every rapper is overrated at one time or another. Being overrated comes with different opinions and biases.

2 PAC is by FAR the most overrated ever, his introspective music is what makes him great, but when you bring up skill(worplay, flow, rhyme schemes...) pac suddenly is just average, His emotional songs like, "dear mama", "changes", "keep you head up", "brenda's got a baby" makes most tear up, and automatically call him the "Best Ever", "Greatest Ever", i call him, The Most Overrated Ever, pac is the greatest emotional rapper but is he the best battle MC? far from that, "Hit Em Up", and "Ride On our enemies", are simplistic songs. Mobb Deep, slayed the Mainstream Giant, with "Drop a Gem on em", Biggie(who is also overrated, not as much as pac of coarse) would have crushed him. Thankfully he didnt.

every rapper is overrated at one time or another. Being overrated comes with different opinions and biases.

:yo:very true

Truth droppin quotables....c/s that to the fullest, every rapper has their **** riders and haters. Hence the reason why every rapper is overrated by some, underrated by others.

As for Pac, i think he is a little overrated...he has fans that woulda probably given their life for him only so he can die later. Theirs fans that try to defend some of the gay tupac images. I know of a fan that actually stabbed someone over an argument about Pac.

Thanks yall. as for pac, yeah hes overrated but i gotta say his songs have a crazy feel to them. Pac just had this energy, this passion....pac was a real artist. r.i.p

2pac biggest fans who lives in other countries dont know who rakim is probably.

2pac biggest fans who lives in other countries dont know who rakim is probably.

very true:fing02:, but i've met a lot of people that do, so watch out some are a Hip-Hop history book.

Thanks yall. as for pac, yeah hes overrated but i gotta say his songs have a crazy feel to them. Pac just had this energy, this passion....pac was a real artist. r.i.p

i agree :fing02:

R.I.P.