who was the best mc in the late 90s like 1998 to the early 2000s like to 2004?

jay-z........

Nas gotta go with him I Am, Nastradamus, Stillmatic, God's Son, Lost Tapes all solid albums.

The Slim Shady Lp/Marshall Mathers Lp/Eminem Show were by far the best albums that came out over that period in time.

I can't consider Lil Kim because she doesn't even write her own rhymes. Big wrote her first album.

During that period I'd give it to Jay. The Roc period. They just kept comin and comin with new artists and albums, and for the most part it was hot stuff they were putting out. '98 In My Lifetime vol. 2, '99 Memphis Bleek Coming of Age, signing Beanie Siegal and State Prop. Dipset, Just Blaze, Kanye West, clothing lines, movie production, all kinds of ventures. Jay was going platinum every outting it seemed. Gotta give it to Jay - Z

scarface had the untouchable, last of a dying breed and the fix....

Nas............................................... ..

nas ..........................

I picked Jay Z followed closely by Nas and DMX,ya gotta remember he was very solid for a while there.

X deserves some recognition because he was really popular and releasing good albums during that time.

X deserves some recognition because he was really popular and releasing good albums during that time.

I'd put X second. he dropped Its Dark... and Flesh of My Flesh... in the same year. And if I'm not mistaken they both went platinum didn't they?

I'd put X second. he dropped Its Dark... and Flesh of My Flesh... in the same year. And if I'm not mistaken they both went platinum didn't they?
Yeah X always goes plat. This recent album was the only one that isn't plat. X was on fire but, I guess the drugs got him gone. His TV show was funny as hell.

Nas,the guys one of the best 2 ever do it

DMX ruled the rap scene with 2 hot albums back to back in 1998 and 1999. Then Jay-z took over with his rockafella label and became huge. Nas took over after 2001 after his battle with Jay-Z and the rest is history.

my vote : nas

Why is Lil Kim on this list?

I think the answer is definitely Nas.

all i'm going to say is that everybody on that list sucks.

oh, and nas is a bit earlier than late nineties.

how long have you people been listening to rap?

all i'm going to say is that everybody on that list sucks.

oh, and nas is a bit earlier than late nineties.

how long have you people been listening to rap?is this question for me? don't matter who it's for.

your opinion is your opinion and that's fine, but don't try to degrade my thread with this nonsense. the topic of my thread was meant to be answered, not criticized by a guy named j.

hey j, since you like asking questions here's one for you, little boy. how long have you been putting white females holding males's basketball trophies in your avatar? or are you that white female hugging that trophy like a recovered child? answer that one sweethart.

Nas. No one can match him lyrically. His I am... to Nastradamus years where his best lyrically--even surpassing Illmatic-- and musically. Those years where from 1998-2001: Nas's best period...period.

With tracks like:

Amongst Kings
Doo Rags
Some of us have angels
Rise and Fall
Fetus
Sometimes I wonder
Project Windows
Life we Chose
Family
Last Words
U Gotta Love It
Nothing Last Forever
My Way
Purple
Drunk by Myself
Black Zombie
Poppa was a Player
In Too Deep
Find Ya Wealth
Tales From the Hood
Fast life
I Really want to show you
Make it Last
John Blaze
Let 'em Hang
Calm Down (Remix)
One Plus One
Stillatic freestyle

......................... and others, some that I have but can't remember the names of. I don't think it's a question who dropped the best material lyrically and musically, during those times.

Jay-Z and DMX did it the biggest, but as a crew Ruff Ryders is my ****. Vol 1 is an unparralled collabo album.

Some lyrics from the era-- (I'm going to try and post the lyrics to Rise and Fall. It's one of his best songs ever and also one of his hardest to find.)

Here are lyrics to a classic track "Amongst Kings" Download this track!! It's sick
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First I see a flashin' light, then on my own
I hear nothin', the smell of fire and brimstone
I feel a hundred arms grabbin' me, fallin' down the hole
Is it because there is no Gravity? my body leaves my Soul
Is the Devil mad at me? will I go to Hell?
Or is it Heaven that awaits me?, it's too early to tell
Is it now that I'm to be judged?
Will I face thee bright tunnel warm lights?
Will embrace me before force takes me
Like I'm movin' through high winds
See my self in baby carriages, relatives and friends
Things manifest, kings from every planets rest here
Beams of light, hear the voice of the Nazareth near

[Hook: Nas]
You 'Amongst Kings' from both far and near land
Made in my image son of God, son of man
You came in the spirit for I am that I am
Father of all worlds fallin' angels in the land

[Nas]
Seen my body layin' down in the ground
It was painless, didn't feel a thing
Shots ring felt the anxious to get up and run
I was atheist.. committed Suicide
I wish I could just erase this ****
I seen a new life before the Christ
He created night & day, the sun & moon
From the virgin woman's womb
We lookin' down at my body, emergency room
Doctors frownin' at me, surgical performs, I'm doomed
It's my day of judgment, eternal peace or fire
Far past the stars far past the Orion
I asked that you forgive father, I was tryin'
Many thrones in the light but only one's truly shinin'

[Hook]

[Nas]
Faster then the blinkin' eye, is the master or not
Face to face (uh) bitin' my case so we debate (where?)
Countin' all my sins (ok), where do we begin
When I stabbed the man in the train station or drunk gin
When I grabbed the man let the shells hit him from the Mac 10
It was all retaliation, (from what?) from way back then
Now I got the black Benz (and) trips from Aspen (and)
Disney World for my little girl and I'm askin'
You would recognize all the good deeds I'm worth (Dear God)
Send me on a trip God please to Earth
So I can deliver thou want it, stop playin'
He gave me life, I screamed out loud that "I Am..."
(Nas... Nastradamus)

[Outro: Nas]
And I saw another mighty angel come down from Heaven (I Am)
Clothe wit the cloud (Nastradamus)
And the rainbow was upon his head as a Crown (I Am)
And his face was lit as were the Sun (I Am)
And his feet as pillars of fire (Nastradamus)
And his name was Nastradamus (I Am)
(I Am Nastradamus)
Nas...
Nas...
Nas...


^^^ That track is scary when you think about it. He's rapping as if he's in the spirit form and is speeding towards his judgement. Some psychedelic, genius, raw Nastradamus to Pre Stillmatic Nas.

Everday thing (audio) sick ass track

http://www.nobodysmiling.com/hiphop/promotional_audio/12684.php

Amongst Kings- http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=221102&songID=4969060

I apologize if there are errors in this song. You know how Limewire can get. I'm not even sure if this is the version I heard. I gotta head back home to peep it.

Eminem cos he was in his prime.

Eminem cos he was in his prime.

And was white?

scarface....
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scarface....
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I dunno, Scarface was better in the mid-90s.

Nas by far.

I dunno, Scarface was better in the mid-90s.

from 97 to 2002 he dropped my homies, the untouchable, last of a dying breed and the fix. name another rapper that can touch that...


honorable mentions

az
ghostface
aceyalone
canibus
common sense
jay-z
nas









im biased..... i know this.

Hov............

Lil Kim? You serious?

I say Nasty Nas followed by Hov.

Nobody was on Jay-Z's level. That was during Roc-A-Fella's run at the top of the game.

why is it all i hear or see around here is naz, jay-z, etc? **** em.

redman has never made an album that was even close to decent - they are all classics. hands down the most solid rapper since the early nineties.

and keith murray is great. his only debatable work is "he's keith murray" which is supposed to be a bit more commercial. i still have to listen to it.

no one on that list even touches red and keith.

Nas doesn't even touch Redman or Keith Murray??

haha, sounds like you deffo know your **** when it comes to Hip Hop. Keep up the hard work :boxing:

Nas doesn't even touch Redman or Keith Murray??

haha, sounds like you deffo know your **** when it comes to Hip Hop. Keep up the hard work


is that a little sarcasm i sense? i'm a little off my game today.

but naw, nas's illmatic was good. i haven't heard it in a while though, so i have no idea how my opinion of it would be now.

why did you put em ont hat poll....are you ****ing crazi....i could easily write a verse on killing my mom, raping my wife and scream it like a ***** over a dr. dre beat and easily go platinum! em isnt even that nice, he got his ass handed to him in a freestyle battle live on hbo by some cornball ( who was white himself)

why did you put em ont hat poll....are you ****ing crazi....i could easily write a verse on killing my mom, raping my wife and scream it like a ***** over a dr. dre beat and easily go platinum! em isnt even that nice, he got his ass handed to him in a freestyle battle live on hbo by some cornball ( who was white himself)

my quote finished em`s whole existence in the boxing scene forums! hes all hype, just like 50 cent....with out dr. dre they would never have been anything

i got jay-z at a good 3rd and its a toss up between dmx and nas! dmx had the streets on lock, the dude used to be a beast, when he came out with the anthem, everyone in NY was banging that ****....the more i think about it, i would have to say dmx - based on everything he did!

my quote finished em`s whole existence in the boxing scene forums! hes all hype, just like 50 cent....with out dr. dre they would never have been anythingoh really, that's what you think. eminem can rap better than majority of your favorite mc's. your quote was pathetic. he's not hype, he is a lyrical genuis, and you have to deal with the fact that he's white and the most versatile rapper in the game, bar none. nobody in hip hop can **** with eminem lyrically or in album sales.

oh really, that's what you think. eminem can rap better than majority of your favorite mc's. your quote was pathetic. he's not hype, he is a lyrical genuis, and you have to deal with the fact that he's white and the most versatile rapper in the game, bar none. nobody in hip hop can **** with eminem lyrically or in album sales.

JESUS CHRIST WOULD YOU SHUT THE **** UP YOU DELUSIONAL EMINEM RECTUM LICKER!!!!!

why did you put em ont hat poll....are you ****ing crazi....i could easily write a verse on killing my mom, raping my wife and scream it like a ***** over a dr. dre beat and easily go platinum! em isnt even that nice, he got his ass handed to him in a freestyle battle live on hbo by some cornball ( who was white himself)i don't know what the hell you're talking about, but oh well, i'm someone will one day. i put eminem on the poll because he was the highest selling rapper during that time, and the most creative rapper as well as the best lyricist on that poll. you try to deny it all you want to, and make stupid claims like you did with your post, but the numbers do not lie, and neither does his albums. so what if he rapped about his mom, kim, icp, n'sync, or whoever else on the mmlp. just because he didn't rap about bling and cars and how much money he had doesn't make him wack, because he is far from wack. in a battle, he would eat dmx up. x wouldn't last with em in a battle. em is too skillful for dmx and jay-z as well. nas would be his opposition, but em would eventually eat him up too. em had the best rhyme scheme during this time as well. he was controversial during his time on top, and as a result, won numerous amounts of awards for hi simpecable genius. he was at his most creative during this period as well. just listen to renegades, and tell me em wasn't better than jay-z. nas even mentioned it in ether how em's verses were way better than jay-z. and, he didn't rap about his mother or kim either. he was very concious in his verses and opened people's eyes as well. i can name so many songs that weren't about kim or debbie mathers. so what if he talked about drugsm, homosexuals, being white, and so what if his songs were crude and disgusting to you. the way he put his rhymes together proved just how talented his was and still is, and proved just how far he was ahead of his peers including nas, jay-z, dmx, lil kim, and others. em was and still is a unique talent, and he is a concious artist and he was in a league of his on during this time period. em was also smart as well. when he started to become big, he took advantage of it. he knew he had the look to be successful in hiphop with the white fanbase, but in a way, he was more pressured because he was white, so he had to bring his A game. and when he did, the black fans saw this, and showed him so much love as well because, he was so lyrical and flowetic in his songs. he was a perfectionist. also, dr. dre signed him. this is saying a lot. a west coast producer who rapped about gang life seeing something special in this kid was also saying something. dre saw the talent and em capitalized off of it. he was so smart. he knew he had a daughter to feed, and a crazy wife to shut up. he knew how to get rich when he was on top an dstill does know how. he rapped about his childhood, and just because he wasn't from the ghetto or hood didn't make his story any less compelling. in the mmlp, he aired his built up frustrations out in a comical, bizarre, rageful, thought-provoking, and controversial way, yet he did it in a masterful way, and showcased his brilliant talent. eminem was a rapper many could relate to just like any black rapper could relate to their fans from the hood or ghetto. he just happened to be from the trailor parks, and that's fine, because we all have a story, an dhe presented his in his own way. he wasn't afraid to say things on his mind, while being very creative in the process. eminem had a lot of controversial issues he played on with his characters. i mean, the man is truly rap's "controversial genius". he touched on issues he related to and it go to well with a lot of people. he changed imo how teeny boppers like boy and girl groups were looke at. i don't see n'sync, britney spears, christina aguilera singing the songs they used to sang anymore. eminem revoluionzed hiphop, and brought hiphop more revenue, because he was that big. he knew what sings would blow up and get him more money.

em was very lyrical even before he blew up. listen to infinite and songs like 313, maxine, never 3 far, and jelous woes to name a few. he was ahead of his time even during this album. from his vocabulary to his flow, and everything in between, em showed just how to put a rhyme together very well. the way he excentuated his rhymes and the syllables were just sheer brilliance. the man was born to be an mc. he grew from each charcter from the sslp, mmlp, to the eminem show. all 3 of these albums are classic and very well done. he is an mc with amazing skill, and the best rapper alive, bar none. he shows up more on other people's tracks than they do themselves. he make their verses look premature. em can outrap anybody in hiphop, deal with it. and, i didn't even bring up the d12 album during this time period. songs like revelation and fight music just goes to show you guys how ahead of the competition really is/was. hey, here are some songs from sslp, mmlp, and the eminem show as well as the 8 mile soundtrack that em didn't talk about his mom and wife in depth, meaning too much for those who don't understand.
soldier, the way i am, stan, ***** please II, marshal mathers, still don't give a ****, rock bottom, lose yourself, love me, square dance, saying goodbye to hollywood(he didn't go too much into to kim), business, if i had, as the world turns(showcased his storytelling ability in his own, unique style), sing for the moment(opened your eyes i hope), white america(jaw dropping), rap game, remember me(just raw brilliance), and till i collapse, just to name a few. everyone of these songs was well done. his rhyme schemes were different in each of these songs too. the man is a rapping, iconic, living legend, and the best rapper alive imo, and these 3 albums prove it to me, because they were different, unique, and stood out from evey other rapper's albums. this is why he is the greatest rapper alive, no doubt about it.

JESUS CHRIST WOULD YOU SHUT THE **** UP YOU DELUSIONAL EMINEM RECTUM LICKER!!!!!didn't you claim you weren't going to respond to me anymore? i knew it wouldn't be too long until you were back in my business. but, since you're back scrap, allow me to inform you again just in case you forgot, that insulting me will not get the job done, or make your posts meaningful. so, bare this in mind and rethink your strategy to argue against me, because you know probably better than anyone else on here that i will not stop arguing until the opposition quits like you yourself did last time, remember? i guess i was too much for you to handle by yourself, so you found some help in your little partner, whatever his username is again, and i still made both of you monkeys quit arguing against me. i guess with all of your excuses to try to justify you quitting like,"pbftxrs316 is an eminem ****-rider, and he's not mature with his posts, so he's not worth arguing against," was a coverup for, "jesus christ, this pbftxrs guy doesn't quit. he's too smart to argue against, so let me spare myself anymore embarrassment, and just take the high road and quit." sounds about right? i think it does. next time, try minding you business little dude.

why did you put em ont hat poll....are you ****ing crazi....i could easily write a verse on killing my mom, raping my wife and scream it like a ***** over a dr. dre beat and easily go platinum! em isnt even that nice, he got his ass handed to him in a freestyle battle live on hbo by some cornball ( who was white himself)

What are you talking about? He was a freestyle legand in Detroit. Do your research. Eminem and 50 dont even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence. Em is far superior.

Em is top 15 doa... 50 is garbage...

but none come closer to Nas............ lyrically....

em has badass production same with 50 however em is sick and his verses are lyrical genius but i feel his gone down the wrong root.. he should stick to his own game instead of making average albums. Encore was garbage but because it was em it sold millions....

Em is top 15 doa... 50 is garbage...

but none come closer to Nas............ lyrically....

em has badass production same with 50 however em is sick and his verses are lyrical genius but i feel his gone down the wrong root.. he should stick to his own game instead of making average albums. Encore was garbage but because it was em it sold millions....

I agree, Encore was a mess imo. Other than "Like Toy Soldiers" I wasnt feeling anything. The Eminem Show, SSLP, and MMLP are all 8/10 and above though imo. Thats not counting his work with D12, which was very good as well.

People like to bring up him having Dr. Dre. Lets not forget Jay-Z had Jus Blaze AND Kanye West, which imo is even better.

why did you put em ont hat poll....are you ****ing crazi....i could easily write a verse on killing my mom, raping my wife and scream it like a ***** over a dr. dre beat

LOL!!!!

i still don't know what songs their are refering to when they talk about how great this guy is.

LOL!!!!

i still don't know what songs their are refering to when they talk about how great this guy is.

I understand he has gimmick songs, and popish type songs, but he has some great material too.

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Renegade with Jay-Z

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Scary Movie with the underrated Royce Da 5'9

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We All Die One Day with G-Unit/Obie I love this song (bad quality)

These are all good examples of Eminem's talent.

Man in that period DMX was coming with energy and fire.

I voted DMX.

I understand he has gimmick songs, and popish type songs, but he has some great material too.

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Renegade with Jay-Z

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Scary Movie with the underrated Royce Da 5'9

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We All Die One Day with G-Unit/Obie I love this song (bad quality)

These are all good examples of Eminem's talent.


I heard alot about this verse from renegade before I actually heard it. I even saw someone somewhere post (on another site) that it was better than anything Rakim ever did. Personally i don't get the appeal. The flow was good I suppose but the punchlines were average and his voice was annoying as usual. I don't know, when i hear him it almost dosen't even sound like he's rapping; he sounds like some kind of high pitched voice comedian or something.

the bottom line is this, eminem is arguably the best rapper alive. he is also top 5 of all time imo. i mean, people say he'll never be a pac, and why is that? i'll explain, because he's eminem, and he's his own rapper. pac lead a movement, but really this didn't come to light until after he died. his death made him so big, and you can agree or disagree, but imo it did. pac was big when he was alive, but after he died, most everyone jumped on the bandwagon. they fed off of his death. eminem led a movement when he was alive. he revolutionized hiphop just like tupac did. eminem is a white rapper, so he'll never get the real credit he deserves like tupac did after pac died. pac was controversial, and so was eminem and it was blatantly obvious. eminem was a much better lyricist than tupac with much better rhyme scheme and a better flow. people like to disregard em's serious songs and people on this forum tend to type in things like, "all em did was talk about goofy ****, and his mom, and wife. he's too silly, so he isn't an all time great." then when em switches it up a little bit and talks about serious issues, then you guys type in, "well, em ain't no ganster, he's fake, he's this, he's that." you guys flip flop more than john kerry. you guys contradict yourselves so much, that even if i bring up your contradictions, you'll find a way to contradict your contradicitons. it's sad really. i mean, rather than giving the man his dues, and seeing true talent, you guys would rather say his voice is annoying and he is a piece of ****. what the hell kind of argument is that? i find myself responding to this crap more than actual, respectable arguments, because i can't recall reading one argument from res or scrappy diggs that wasn't full **** insults and contradictary points. both of these guys have no good points in their posts ever. they don't have to lik eminem at all, but their reasoning and logic is so retarted, it's actually saddens me to read them.

res talks about punchlines from eminem in renegades. hello, dumbass, the song wasn't a punchline song. i really believe that you don't truly know em's music besides from his singles and what people say about his album, mainly encore. instead of listening to the song and the message of the song, you look for punchlines? you make me sick man. at that point and time, em was a controversial figure in hiphop, and recieved a lot of criticism for his music, which he wasn't afraid to touch on controversial subjects in it. he also was considered a bad influence on kids especially on kids who were bullied in school(mainly highschool). i also think around that time we had the whole columbine massacre fiasco that took place. em was touching on subjects that were different from rap legends like jay z, nas, dmx, and others. he couldn't relate with being from the hood as a black man. he was from the trailors, and he was bullied, and he had to overcome adversity as a youth seeing how he wanted to rap and he was white. the man has overcome so much turmoil in his life due to his music and songs like renegades, the way i am, white america, we as americans, rememer me, and more songs that dealt with controversial subjects that he was in some fashion involved around due to his musci. he is truly a concious artist and songs like renegades is just small example of this. i don't care if you poeple can't stand eminem's musci or even him, you can't deny his impact in rap music, and how he revolutionized the rap game, can't be taken away from him. he is a god mc. deal with it.

if you guys want me to explain more, no problem. all you have to do is post like res and scrappy diggs. that way you really can't respond back to me with any substance seeing how i responded to nonsense to begin with.

DMX was definitely one of the best rappers & mc's in the late 90's early 2000's...This dude withhis whole dog act get the crowd crunk everytime he hits the stage...

Any of you like Sigel?

the bottom line is this, eminem is arguably the best rapper alive. he is also top 5 of all time imo. i mean, people say he'll never be a pac, and why is that? i'll explain, because he's eminem, and he's his own rapper. pac lead a movement, but really this didn't come to light until after he died. his death made him so big, and you can agree or disagree, but imo it did. pac was big when he was alive, but after he died, most everyone jumped on the bandwagon. they fed off of his death. eminem led a movement when he was alive. he revolutionized hiphop just like tupac did. eminem is a white rapper, so he'll never get the real credit he deserves like tupac did after pac died. pac was controversial, and so was eminem and it was blatantly obvious. eminem was a much better lyricist than tupac with much better rhyme scheme and a better flow. people like to disregard em's serious songs and people on this forum tend to type in things like, "all em did was talk about goofy ****, and his mom, and wife. he's too silly, so he isn't an all time great." then when em switches it up a little bit and talks about serious issues, then you guys type in, "well, em ain't no ganster, he's fake, he's this, he's that." you guys flip flop more than john kerry. you guys contradict yourselves so much, that even if i bring up your contradictions, you'll find a way to contradict your contradicitons. it's sad really. i mean, rather than giving the man his dues, and seeing true talent, you guys would rather say his voice is annoying and he is a piece of ****. what the hell kind of argument is that? i find myself responding to this crap more than actual, respectable arguments, because i can't recall reading one argument from res or scrappy diggs that wasn't full **** insults and contradictary points. both of these guys have no good points in their posts ever. they don't have to lik eminem at all, but their reasoning and logic is so retarted, it's actually saddens me to read them.

res talks about punchlines from eminem in renegades. hello, dumbass, the song wasn't a punchline song. i really believe that you don't truly know em's music besides from his singles and what people say about his album, mainly encore. instead of listening to the song and the message of the song, you look for punchlines? you make me sick man. at that point and time, em was a controversial figure in hiphop, and recieved a lot of criticism for his music, which he wasn't afraid to touch on controversial subjects in it. he also was considered a bad influence on kids especially on kids who were bullied in school(mainly highschool). i also think around that time we had the whole columbine massacre fiasco that took place. em was touching on subjects that were different from rap legends like jay z, nas, dmx, and others. he couldn't relate with being from the hood as a black man. he was from the trailors, and he was bullied, and he had to overcome adversity as a youth seeing how he wanted to rap and he was white. the man has overcome so much turmoil in his life due to his music and songs like renegades, the way i am, white america, we as americans, rememer me, and more songs that dealt with controversial subjects that he was in some fashion involved around due to his musci. he is truly a concious artist and songs like renegades is just small example of this. i don't care if you poeple can't stand eminem's musci or even him, you can't deny his impact in rap music, and how he revolutionized the rap game, can't be taken away from him. he is a god mc. deal with it.

if you guys want me to explain more, no problem. all you have to do is post like res and scrappy diggs. that way you really can't respond back to me with any substance seeing how i responded to nonsense to begin with.

eminem's quality has decreased exponentially over the years and still hasnt released a bonafide classic.... as of right now, all time, em isnt near the top 15.....

as far as best rapper alive... i wasnt aware that rakim was dead....

eminem's quality has decreased exponentially over the years and still hasnt released a bonafide classic.... as of right now, all time, em isnt near the top 15.....how has his quality decreased?

Eminem or Jay-Z

how has his quality decreased?

did you listen to encore?

did you listen to encore?yes, and what about it?

E-40 makes everyone on that list look like amatures

the bottom line is this, eminem is arguably the best rapper alive. he is also top 5 of all time imo. i mean, people say he'll never be a pac, and why is that? i'll explain, because he's eminem, and he's his own rapper. pac lead a movement, but really this didn't come to light until after he died. his death made him so big, and you can agree or disagree, but imo it did. pac was big when he was alive, but after he died, most everyone jumped on the bandwagon. they fed off of his death. eminem led a movement when he was alive. he revolutionized hiphop just like tupac did. eminem is a white rapper, so he'll never get the real credit he deserves like tupac did after pac died. pac was controversial, and so was eminem and it was blatantly obvious. eminem was a much better lyricist than tupac with much better rhyme scheme and a better flow. people like to disregard em's serious songs and people on this forum tend to type in things like, "all em did was talk about goofy ****, and his mom, and wife. he's too silly, so he isn't an all time great." then when em switches it up a little bit and talks about serious issues, then you guys type in, "well, em ain't no ganster, he's fake, he's this, he's that." you guys flip flop more than john kerry. you guys contradict yourselves so much, that even if i bring up your contradictions, you'll find a way to contradict your contradicitons. it's sad really. i mean, rather than giving the man his dues, and seeing true talent, you guys would rather say his voice is annoying and he is a piece of ****. what the hell kind of argument is that? i find myself responding to this crap more than actual, respectable arguments, because i can't recall reading one argument from res or scrappy diggs that wasn't full **** insults and contradictary points. both of these guys have no good points in their posts ever. they don't have to lik eminem at all, but their reasoning and logic is so retarted, it's actually saddens me to read them.

res talks about punchlines from eminem in renegades. hello, dumbass, the song wasn't a punchline song. i really believe that you don't truly know em's music besides from his singles and what people say about his album, mainly encore. instead of listening to the song and the message of the song, you look for punchlines? you make me sick man. at that point and time, em was a controversial figure in hiphop, and recieved a lot of criticism for his music, which he wasn't afraid to touch on controversial subjects in it. he also was considered a bad influence on kids especially on kids who were bullied in school(mainly highschool). i also think around that time we had the whole columbine massacre fiasco that took place. em was touching on subjects that were different from rap legends like jay z, nas, dmx, and others. he couldn't relate with being from the hood as a black man. he was from the trailors, and he was bullied, and he had to overcome adversity as a youth seeing how he wanted to rap and he was white. the man has overcome so much turmoil in his life due to his music and songs like renegades, the way i am, white america, we as americans, rememer me, and more songs that dealt with controversial subjects that he was in some fashion involved around due to his musci. he is truly a concious artist and songs like renegades is just small example of this. i don't care if you poeple can't stand eminem's musci or even him, you can't deny his impact in rap music, and how he revolutionized the rap game, can't be taken away from him. he is a god mc. deal with it.

if you guys want me to explain more, no problem. all you have to do is post like res and scrappy diggs. that way you really can't respond back to me with any substance seeing how i responded to nonsense to begin with.


"Revolutionized the rap game" :lol1: :lol1:

Stan, go check yourself in to a clinic. You are a ****in moron. I have not seen you post a single thing that wasn't about Eminem and it is all delusional jibberish. Take this bull**** to Eminem.com or something, you can't hang in an intellectual rap conversation and don't know anything about hiphop all together.

Eminem's grating voice does matter, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MUSIC! Music is about the way things sound. Secondly, about the only area that Eminem is not extremely overrrated is flow. His word play actually isn't that impressive when compared to, lets say, the word play of various members of the Wu Tang Clan. I also find his punclines to be usually silly and unimpressive. As far as "profound" is concerned...I don't see it.

"Revolutionized the rap game" :lol1: :lol1:

Stan, go check yourself in to a clinic. You are a ****in moron. I have not seen you post a single thing that wasn't about Eminem and it is all delusional jibberish. Take this bull**** to Eminem.com or something, you can't hang in an intellectual rap conversation and don't know anything about hiphop all together.first of all, don't try to insult me because you can have a decent argument with me. second of all, you go back and check 1998 and 1999 again dumby. he did revolutionize the rap game. think about it, he's a white rapper, who rapped about his mom, drugs, his wife, columbine, the president, pop stars, political issues, and was very successful in doing this. he lead a movement in hiphop and was very successful in doing this. he was controversial, yet because he was white, it made it that much more cmpelling to hear his story. you'd have to be a fool, which you obviously are, not to see how he revolutionized rap. he didn't talk about jewels or cars or other subjects that were being talked about in rap songs at the time. he was different. don't insult me because you're the one in denial and don't know what you're talking about.

Eminem's grating voice does matter, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT MUSIC! Music is about the way things sound. Secondly, about the only area that Eminem is not extremely overrrated is flow. His word play actually isn't that impressive when compared to, lets say, the word play of various members of the Wu Tang Clan. I also find his punclines to be usually silly and unimpressive. As far as "profound" is concerned...I don't see it.okay, think about what you're posting. you're typing in your little post that his voice is annoying to you. is it no deep enough for you? is it not raspy enough for you? who should he sound like? jay z, nas, dmx, cannibus? no i don't think so. he has his own sound and own unique voice. then you compare him to the wu-tang clan and his flow compared to theirs. em's flow is much better than rza's and em's voice isn't as annoying as rza's either. at least we can understand what em is saying. em's flow is better than method man's also imo, but it's a matter of taste. he could outrap any and everybody in the wu-tang clan also imo. yes, and that includes raekwon and ghostface, who sounds like he's whining when he raps. i think the best lyricist in wu-tang is raekwon even though ghostface is nice too, but raekwon is just an amazing lyricist with raw energy, and he couldn't hold a candle to eminem. you find his punchlines to be usually silly and unimpressive, well that's you, and again it's a matter of taste, but just because you find them to be silly doesn't mean they are. in fact, he doesn't use punchlines like a typical punchline artist does. he finds ways to put them in, in places that you wouldn't even think they could go. he's a smart son of a *****.

talk about the way things sound. when you hear an eminem song, whether you like the content of it or not, the song usually is put together masterfully. i don't care if he's rapping about a pop star, a puppet, his mom, or the president of the united states, his flow is brilliant, his rhyme scheme is brilliant, his energy is brilliant, his characters are compelling with their stories, and he is showing his fans and detractors just how much he loves rap music in his own way, and he is the best alive imo. but, res, i really don't think you ever listened to em's songs like that to be tryin gto argue with me. so, i really shouldn't waste my time arguing with you, because you have a one track mind on this subject, so it's like i'm arguing with a dumptruck, because the only feedback i get from you it recycled garbage, and that's what i'll continue to get from you and your new companion alpha boy. but, that's fine, because i post decent and logical arguments while you and your buddies post insults and nonsense. no amount of insults will make you look like you know what you're talking about, remember that.

first of all, don't try to insult me because you can have a decent argument with me. second of all, you go back and check 1998 and 1999 again dumby. he did revolutionize the rap game. think about it, he's a white rapper, who rapped about his mom, drugs, his wife, columbine, the president, pop stars, political issues, and was very successful in doing this. he lead a movement in hiphop and was very successful in doing this. he was controversial, yet because he was white, it made it that much more cmpelling to hear his story. you'd have to be a fool, which you obviously are, not to see how he revolutionized rap. he didn't talk about jewels or cars or other subjects that were being talked about in rap songs at the time. he was different. don't insult me because you're the one in denial and don't know what you're talking about.

Son, you are saying that someone rapping about his mom, drugs, pop stars and his wife is revolutionary? :?!:

When did you start listening to rap? 2 years ago?

I am almost inclined to bash you nonstop for your ignorance but I am now realizing that you just appear to be young and very naive. You are not a well schooled or knowledgable fan and you are simply ignorant to the whole essence of hip hop. You obviously know nothing about hiphop that predates 1998 because if you did you would never hold Feminem in such high regards. In fact you have shown that you know nothing about rap OTHER than Eminem. Calling him a good MC is one thing, but giving him the kind of accolades that you are is simply ****in absurd and immature.

Eminem doesnt break the top 25 MCs all time...You would know that if you knew more about hiphop and knew what other MCs were laying down way before his wackness. I would suggest doing some research...go out and buy some classic albums, listen to the REAL people that revolutionized rap. Go to the store and pick up 'Paid in Full', 'Long Live the Kane', 'Low End Theory', 'Mecca and the Soul Brother'...You need to reprogram your tainted thinking and learn about the history of this game before you say the ridiculous things that you do.

yes, and what about it?

it was pure garbage......

Son, you are saying that someone rapping about his mom, drugs, pop stars and his wife is revolutionary? :?!:

When did you start listening to rap? 2 years ago?

I am almost inclined to bash you nonstop for your ignorance but I am now realizing that you just appear to be young and very naive. You are not a well schooled or knowledgable fan and you are simply ignorant to the whole essence of hip hop. You obviously know nothing about hiphop that predates 1998 because if you did you would never hold Feminem in such high regards. In fact you have shown that you know nothing about rap OTHER than Eminem. Calling him a good MC is one thing, but giving him the kind of accolades that you are is simply ****in absurd and immature.

Eminem doesnt break the top 25 MCs all time...You would know that if you knew more about hiphop and knew what other MCs were laying down way before his wackness. I would suggest doing some research...go out and buy some classic albums, listen to the REAL people that revolutionized rap. Go to the store and pick up 'Paid in Full', 'Long Live the Kane', 'Low End Theory', 'Mecca and the Soul Brother'...You need to reprogram your tainted thinking and learn about the history of this game before you say the ridiculous things that you do.
you're making me laugh with stuff like this. you're almost incline to bash my ignorance? hell, son, you minus well call me a ****** then, because your inclinations mean nothing to me. oh yeah, and that me being a young kid stuff is very old at this point. ask res and scrappy diggs, it got them nowhere. think before you type. he did revolutionize the rap game. think about it dumby, rap at that time was composed of lyrics about drug selling, hood life, jewels, bling bling, guns, and yada yada yada, tough talking, threatening people who hate on you, even people you never met. eminem revolutionzed(look up the term if you don't REALLY know what it means) with his style and word content, and controversial subjects. you have to really have had your eyes closed during his time on top of hiphop. so, implying on your part, that he didn't revolutionize the game followed by a barage name calling towards him and i shows me that you have a blind hatred towards him, and your hatred for him allows you to make posts like you have made thus far. look at all my posts previous to this one and then yours again. it's no competition, all of my posts are respectable and fair, because, although they are just opinions on my part, i also give facts and logical reasoning to them, so i really don't have to respond too much in depth with this post response to you. you, on the other hand, have had posts with insults and name calling. then you throw in a little opinion that you pass as fact to try to make your post look reasonable, but in reality it's just like all of your previous posts, recycled garbage. try to analyze my posts a little better than you have so far, and really sit down and type in a respectable argument, because even the most jaded eminem hater who really knows hiphop can see that eminem did revolutionize the rap game, and changed how a good lyricist was viewed at the time, not just by tough talk and punchlines and metaphors about their hood or guns or drug selling or whatever. em talked about taking drugs like pills and mushrooms and touched on subjects like homosexualality and pop stars and killing his wife and other celebrities, and other off the wall subjects that many black rappers wouldn't dare touch on, and he still got the respect as a amazing lyricist. also, with songs like stan, which was something new and fresh seeing as he was talking from a fan's point of view showed his versatility as an artist/lyricist, and it was so different and compelling, and helped in him revlolutionizing rap. ask rakim, krs 1, method man, jay z, nas, dre, snoop, big daddy kane, and i'm not promising, but i'm pretty sure they would say he revolutionzied hiphop, i'm willing to bank on it. also, with him being a white, respected successful solo rap artist(unlike vanilla ice and mark walhberg who were not respected), there was no other choice but for him to revolutionize rap dumb ass. he was so respected as an mc when he was on top and still is, and that was tough to be at the time, and he changed that viewpoint, because after vanilla ice, i'm sure many never saw a white rapper making it in hiphop, and eminem did. he was more revolutionary than you'll ever know. i don't usually put this into my posts, but i :owned: you in my previous post and i'm owning you now(just though i'd let you know in case you don't). i'm not taking anything away from pave setters like big daddy kane, tupac, biggie, krs 1, slick rick, ll cool j, big l, even jay z or nas(and i'm not saying that they didn't revolutionize rap music), i'm just giving eminem the credit he rightfully deserves imo. you, on the other note, are insulting his legacy and his name with no logial reasoning to show for it, only with, "all he raps about is his mom, drugs, and pop stars, and his music is whack."(you really need to go out and do some research, because if you really know hiphop like you claim you do, you would know that em's has songs other than killing his wife, taking drugs, and pop stars). i know that all of this may sound a little familiar to you, maybe because i already posted it in post prior to this one, so in other words, you're just proving my points, and in a way, i'm glad you're responding to my posts like you are. you see, res and scrappy diggs tried the same thing you're trying, to argue with insults and they attempted to expalin that i know little to nothing about hiphop, and it got them nowhere just like it's getting you.

i never disregarded other hiphop moguls and legends nor was it my intention to do so(go back and actually read my posts, no matter how boring it may be due to it's length). you just so happen to take it that way, mainly because you couldn't argue in a respectable and adult manner, and instead decided to put words in my posts that i never typed in.

you know what gets me about many of you people on this forum when it comes to eminem. i've read a lot of comments from you "hiphop historians":ugh: :nonono: explaining how eminem fell of with encore. "he fell off, he's not the same, he's not this anymore, he's not that anymore, he's not as nice as he was on the mmlp and the eminem show or the sslp." and then you guys post **** like all he really rapped about was drugs, pop stars, his wife, and mother, so he's not an all time great because of this, which he rapped about in depth in all three of those albums. and, in reading all of this, i wonder, what did he ever put out that you people really liked, if anything? i mean, from what i've read so far, you guys are contradictary kings. i've read so many contradictions, that even if you stopped now, it wouldn't even matter, because by then, i'd be so confused by you people's logic. it's not hard to poke holes in your logic alphalpha ape. next time you respond back to me, please make it look at least decent enought to make you want to respond back to my response to your next response to me, because i know you'll respond back to me again after you read this, which you won't know how to top this anyway, but nonetheless, i'm sure you'll try. be my guest, as i will never stop arguing against you and whoever else wants to argue with me, because unlike you, i don't need insults to get my point across. let's see what you got for me, little boy.

oh yeah, and here's a bunch of songs that em rarely to never touched on his mother, wife, drugs, and pop stars:
313, love me, one day at a time, jealousy woes, rap game, lose yourself, assassins, murder murder, renegades, most shady(off biggie duets), soldier, white america, square dance, mocusa, till i collapse, still don't give a ****, mosh, like toy soldiers, stan, the way i am, remember me, rock bottom, we as americans, dream for the moment, rabbit run, quitter(i had to put one in, he just destroyed everlast with this one), nail in the coffin, emulate, patiently waiting, hail mary(diss to ja rule), bumpheads, i remember, hey lady, stimlulate, warriors remix, got it twisted freestyle, never knew i(now i know he mentioned drugs and homosexuals in this song but only briefly), no apologies, you don't know, gatman and robin, welcome to d-block, revelation, **** can happen, i'm a pyscho remix featuring b-real, ***** please II, yellow brick road, just to name o few.

Son, you are saying that someone rapping about his mom, drugs, pop stars and his wife is revolutionary? :?!:

When did you start listening to rap? 2 years ago?

I am almost inclined to bash you nonstop for your ignorance but I am now realizing that you just appear to be young and very naive. You are not a well schooled or knowledgable fan and you are simply ignorant to the whole essence of hip hop. You obviously know nothing about hiphop that predates 1998 because if you did you would never hold Feminem in such high regards. In fact you have shown that you know nothing about rap OTHER than Eminem. Calling him a good MC is one thing, but giving him the kind of accolades that you are is simply ****in absurd and immature.

Eminem doesnt break the top 25 MCs all time...You would know that if you knew more about hiphop and knew what other MCs were laying down way before his wackness. I would suggest doing some research...go out and buy some classic albums, listen to the REAL people that revolutionized rap. Go to the store and pick up 'Paid in Full', 'Long Live the Kane', 'Low End Theory', 'Mecca and the Soul Brother'...You need to reprogram your tainted thinking and learn about the history of this game before you say the ridiculous things that you do.

No offence but dont tell somebody they know nothing about Hip Hop then say Eminem isnt in the top 25 mc's.

And Eminem did revoloutinarise rap. I dont get why all these people hate on him. In my opinion Eminem brought every emotion into rap.

People like you piss me off. Dont tell somebody they dont know anything about rap just because Eminem is one of their favourite rappers. You wont get head off these underground mc's for hating on Eminem.

No offence but dont tell somebody they know nothing about Hip Hop then say Eminem isnt in the top 25 mc's.

And Eminem did revoloutinarise rap. I dont get why all these people hate on him. In my opinion Eminem brought every emotion into rap.

People like you piss me off. Dont tell somebody they dont know anything about rap just because Eminem is one of their favourite rappers. You wont get head off these underground mc's for hating on Eminem.

Naz, you are up there with your boy Pbx. Young foolish Eminem scrotum riders. Yall are a funny breed, like an infestation on hiphop message boards all over the internet. And all of you are like 18 years old. Stan just wrote a ****in hour long novel about his idol and just skimming through it really made me chuckle. Its so asinine and immature, theres nothing I could possibly say to shut him up. Its a man arguing with a boy, no other way to put it.

Eminem didn't revolutionize a god damn thing homos. Thats THE dumbest **** I've heard, thats low even for Eminem fans. Hes not in Top 25. I can name 25 MCs better than him. EASILY. You probably can't even name 25 MCs period. Leave this to the professionals please. Thanks.

it was pure garbage......so, seeing as it was pure garbage in your opinion and i'm sure a lot of other people's opinions, this one album that you didn't like made eminem fall off. and what about this album made it different from all of his other albums. should he have rapped about the same subjects that he did in his other albums, like taking drugs, killing his wife, raping and killing his mother, dissing pop stars, talking about his influence on white suburban kids, dissing bill clinton, dissing lauryn hill, giving dre props, talking about how he made it in rap? because to many people on here, these subjects are already too much for them. so, he raps about something different and tries to open people's eyes with songs like toy soldiers and mosh and yellow brick road, while keeping his silly charcter persona with songs like ass like that, no legs, and just lose it, and you probably mainly focused on the goofy songs and judged him off of those songs alone. you see, eminem has never been or is not afraid to touch on subjects that other rappers wouldn't dare touch on, because he is a white artist and he can get away with this while still being a respected and well liked lyricist. then he raps like a thug, and he gets criticized. he tries to change his persona, and he gets criticized. but, with his fearless approach with controverisial songs like no legs in which he touched on christopher reeves who had died not too long before that, he still showcased the eminem and slim shady of of the sslp and mmlp where he touched on dead celebrities like sonny bono and versace. i mean, so this couldn't have been the reason why you claim he fell off. or could it? or could the fact that his flow was a little different from his previous albums be the reason why you claimed he fell off? remember, when he was made the mmlp, he had much more subjects to rap about that affected him then he did with encore, even though he tried to clear his past with the racist tape fiasco about black women and the black race as a whole, and the war and george bush, and the beef he participated in, and how he tried to stop the beef before it went too far. maybe the fact that in his previous beefs, he never tried to squash it, and the fact that he did wit like toy soldiers made him look soft to you. i don't know. i have to wait for some more feedback from you, not just it was garbage. explain to me why you thought it was garbage. let's have a mature and respectable discussin about this if you want to, because i'm game. i won't try to **** on you like res, scrappy diggs, and alpha ape trued to do with me. this is what this forum is about anyway, you know?

Have you been taught the concept of tabs, spacing and paragraphs?

Naz, you are up there with your boy Pbx. Young foolish Eminem scrotum riders. Yall are a funny breed, like an infestation on hiphop message boards all over the internet. And all of you are like 18 years old. Stan just wrote a ****in hour long novel about his idol and just skimming through it really made me chuckle. Its so asinine and immature, theres nothing I could possibly say to shut him up. Its a man arguing with a boy, no other way to put it.

Eminem didn't revolutionize a god damn thing homos. Thats THE dumbest **** I've heard, thats low even for Eminem fans. Hes not in Top 25. I can name 25 MCs better than him. EASILY. You probably can't even name 25 MCs period. Leave this to the professionals please. Thanks.

What the ****? Dont come with that bull**** to me. I'm only 17 but I grew up on hip hop music and thats worldwide hip hop music not Young Jeezy and T.I or whoever the **** you listen to. I dont give a **** if Immortal had wrote Stan you would be on your knees saying how it was the best song ever. In my opinion that **** was smart.

Try name me 25 commercial mc's better than Eminem. The simple fact is you cant because for a commercial mc he had skills. Eminem brought hip hop to a new audience, that is revoloutianary.

Dont try and undermine my hip hop knowledge you ignorant prick when you dont even know me.

What the ****? Dont come with that bull**** to me. I'm only 17 but I grew up on hip hop music and thats worldwide hip hop music not Young Jeezy and T.I or whoever the **** you listen to. I dont give a **** if Immortal had wrote Stan you would be on your knees saying how it was the best song ever. In my opinion that **** was smart.

Try name me 25 commercial mc's better than Eminem. The simple fact is you cant because for a commercial mc he had skills. Eminem brought hip hop to a new audience, that is revoloutianary.

Dont try and undermine my hip hop knowledge you ignorant prick when you dont even know me.don't even stress over the guy. this argument is very respectable, actually this one argument is better than about 5 or 6 of alpha ape's posts alone.

What the ****? Dont come with that bull**** to me. I'm only 17 but I grew up on hip hop music and thats worldwide hip hop music not Young Jeezy and T.I or whoever the **** you listen to. I dont give a **** if Immortal had wrote Stan you would be on your knees saying how it was the best song ever. In my opinion that **** was smart.

Try name me 25 commercial mc's better than Eminem. The simple fact is you cant because for a commercial mc he had skills. Eminem brought hip hop to a new audience, that is revoloutianary.

Dont try and undermine my hip hop knowledge you ignorant prick when you dont even know me.

You don't know **** lad. See, I was right. All Eminem ball riders are your age. It makes sense now. In the year 2000 you were 10 ****in years old. You didn't even start listening to rap until the era when hiphop was already a dying art. Don't argue with a chief you pamper pusher.

25 MCs better than Eminem? Psssh...****in easy. Off the top of the dome, I can do this in my sleep even:

Rakim
Method Man
Tupac
Big Pun
Big Daddy Kane
AZ
Ghostface Killah
KRS-1
Chuck D
Jay-Z
Biggie
Busta Rhymes
Kool G Rap
Nas
Common
Big L
CL Smooth
Cormega
Sean Price
GZA
Guru
Mos Def
Canibus
Slick Rick
Black Thought

See that wasn't very hard now was it. All of them superior to Eminem. How many of those guys do you even own an album of? Three? Four? Get it together kiddo, you are not in my league.

You don't know **** lad. See, I was right. All Eminem ball riders are your age. It makes sense now. In the year 2000 you were 10 ****in years old. You didn't even start listening to rap until the era when hiphop was already a dying art. Don't argue with a chief you pamper pusher.

25 MCs better than Eminem? Psssh...****in easy. Off the top of the dome, I can do this in my sleep even:

Rakim
Method Man
Tupac
Big Pun
Big Daddy Kane
AZ
Ghostface Killah
KRS-1
Chuck D
Jay-Z
Biggie
Busta Rhymes
Kool G Rap
Nas
Common
Big L
CL Smooth
Cormega
Sean Price
GZA
Guru
Mos Def
Canibus
Slick Rick
Black Thought

See that wasn't very hard now was it. All of them superior to Eminem. How many of those guys do you even own an album of? Three? Four? Get it together kiddo, you are not in my league.and i'm glad you gave us 25 of your favorite rappers.

25 MCs better than Eminem? Psssh...****in easy. Off the top of the dome, I can do this in my sleep even:
Rakim - Yeah he was better
Method Man- Nope
Tupac- In my opinion pac is better
Big Pun- I prefer Em but thats cos I dont like Pun's voice. Never have done.
Big Daddy Kane - Nope
AZ- Please...good rapper but not better than Em.
Ghostface Killah- Nope
KRS-1- Nope, you're not picking him on skills
Chuck D - No way
Jay-Z- I dont think so but it can be argued
Biggie- Yeah he was better
Busta Rhymes- Nooooo
Kool G Rap - Can be argued
Nas - Yeah
Common- Nope
Big L - Yeah
CL Smooth- No way
Cormega- Can be argued
Sean Price- Haven't heard too much of him
GZA- I dont think so
Guru - My fave rapper
Mos Def- I say no though a lot will say yes
Canibus - Yeah I would say Canibus is better
Slick Rick - ....the **** are you smoking?
Black Thought- No. And I wouldnt call him commercial.

Why are you putting guys like Chuck D, BDK and Slick Rick against Eminem? It's like sticking a good 1930's boxer against a good 1990's boxer. Eminem is clearly a better rapper than them. In their era they were sick but Eminem has much more skill.

Also you have too many good lyricist on that list that are only good lyricists. As a rapper you need the whole package. In my opinion the majority of that list are not close to Eminem's level. The point I'm making is dont shoot down people that like Eminem just because you dont. That shows ignorance and IMO real hip hop fans aint ignorant like that. I approach music with an open mind but when I see people like you attacking people just cos they like a rapper you dont it makes me wanna **** it an envelope and post it to you.

Why are you putting guys like Chuck D, BDK and Slick Rick against Eminem? It's like sticking a good 1930's boxer against a good 1990's boxer. Eminem is clearly a better rapper than them. In their era they were sick but Eminem has much more skill.

Also you have too many good lyricist on that list that are only good lyricists. As a rapper you need the whole package. In my opinion the majority of that list are not close to Eminem's level. The point I'm making is dont shoot down people that like Eminem just because you dont. That shows ignorance and IMO real hip hop fans aint ignorant like that. I approach music with an open mind but when I see people like you attacking people just cos they like a rapper you dont it makes me wanna **** it an envelope and post it to you.
Eminem is better than Slick Rick? Have you listened to him? Owned one of his albums? lolz...o man I heard it all. And uh if you say this is like comparing 90s boxers to 30s boxers (even though the gap is nowhere near that wide) then we are talking on a pound for pound MC basis. Plain and simple and guess what, Sugar Ray Robinson is the P4P greatest fighter of all time and he hasn't fought in 50 years. So greatness stands the test of time, you have nothing there. You just won't get it...in essence yall really don't know what you missed out on and arguing with you two makes me realize how deprived todays "hiphop" fans are.

Yall aint getting the point. If you think Eminem is a good MC then thats great. But do NOT overrate this mother****er and give him such a prominent place in history when there are many more influential, talented and legendary MCs than him. Many of which I just named.

Of course I have heard Slick Rick's **** hes the best rapper to have came out of the UK :banana:

Eminem's Infinite, SSLP and MMLP for me make him 1 of my favourite rappers. After that he fell off no doubt but them albums for me are faves.

And Sugar Ray Robinson is p4p #1 based on weight class + era. He wouldnt beat a lot of boxers around today.

Of course I have heard Slick Rick's **** hes the best rapper to have came out of the UK :banana:

Eminem's Infinite, SSLP and MMLP for me make him 1 of my favourite rappers. After that he fell off no doubt but them albums for me are faves.

And Sugar Ray Robinson is p4p #1 based on weight class + era. He wouldnt beat a lot of boxers around today.

yeah man, eminems early **** was slammin....... esp infinite and off da wall!

25 MCs better than Eminem? Psssh...****in easy. Off the top of the dome, I can do this in my sleep even:
Rakim - Yeah he was better
Method Man- Nope
Tupac- In my opinion pac is better
Big Pun- I prefer Em but thats cos I dont like Pun's voice. Never have done.
Big Daddy Kane - Nope
AZ- Please...good rapper but not better than Em.
Ghostface Killah- Nope
KRS-1- Nope, you're not picking him on skills
Chuck D - No way
Jay-Z- I dont think so but it can be argued
Biggie- Yeah he was better
Busta Rhymes- Nooooo
Kool G Rap - Can be argued
Nas - Yeah
Common- Nope
Big L - Yeah
CL Smooth- No way
Cormega- Can be argued
Sean Price- Haven't heard too much of him
GZA- I dont think so
Guru - My fave rapper
Mos Def- I say no though a lot will say yes
Canibus - Yeah I would say Canibus is better
Slick Rick - ....the **** are you smoking?
Black Thought- No. And I wouldnt call him commercial.

Why are you putting guys like Chuck D, BDK and Slick Rick against Eminem? It's like sticking a good 1930's boxer against a good 1990's boxer. Eminem is clearly a better rapper than them. In their era they were sick but Eminem has much more skill.

Also you have too many good lyricist on that list that are only good lyricists. As a rapper you need the whole package. In my opinion the majority of that list are not close to Eminem's level. The point I'm making is dont shoot down people that like Eminem just because you dont. That shows ignorance and IMO real hip hop fans aint ignorant like that. I approach music with an open mind but when I see people like you attacking people just cos they like a rapper you dont it makes me wanna **** it an envelope and post it to you.


WOW! good lyricists that are only good lyricists? that is the definition of Eminem. There is more than lyrics to being a rapper, you are right, which is exactly why KRS-ONE and certain others are definately superior to Eminem. Even Rakim in the interview that he did with the french Journalist said that Eminem wasn't really a rapper but a lyricist (and that is the level on which he respects him). Oh and by the way, I consider anyone that the grammy academy knows exists to be mainstream so I think Black Thought is. You certainly can't call a grammy artist "underground". Anyway you have a far more sane position on all of this than our friend here, I don't care for Eminem but I understand where your coming from.

You don't know **** lad. See, I was right. All Eminem ball riders are your age. It makes sense now. In the year 2000 you were 10 ****in years old. You didn't even start listening to rap until the era when hiphop was already a dying art. Don't argue with a chief you pamper pusher.


Was he really 10 in 2000?! If he were that would account for alot. It makes perfect sense that he would think that Eminem introduced non-gangster content into rap music. Well Pbftx just so you know, 80's rap was pretty much devoid of "gangsta" content with the exception of Kool G rap, who really didn't catch on untill he started to emphasize battle rap. All Rap music my friend was about the "other things" in life at that time. In the early 90's Hammer was still big lol and nonviolent jazz inspired groups like a Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and Digable Planets were the standard. Gangsta rap didn't really take off untill "The Chronic". To put it simply, rap music was non-gangsta rap while the street controlled the market for atleast three times longer than it was gangsta rap (and by this I am talking about what was most dominant). So rappers talked about "other things" for a very long time, Eminem was not some revolutionary that introduced this. I can't blame you for assuming that though, I would too if I was your age.

WOW! good lyricists that are only good lyricists? that is the definition of Eminem. There is more than lyrics to being a rapper, you are right, which is exactly why KRS-ONE and certain others are definately superior to Eminem. Even Rakim in the interview that he did with the french Journalist said that Eminem wasn't really a rapper but a lyricist (and that is the level on which he respects him). Oh and by the way, I consider anyone that the grammy academy knows exists to be mainstream so I think Black Thought is. You certainly can't call a grammy artist "underground". Anyway you have a far more sane position on all of this than our friend here, I don't care for Eminem but I understand where your coming from.

Yeah fair do's. I would never try to argue that Eminem is the best rapper of all time, cos for ones hes not and anyone that tries to say he is are most likely fan boys but you cant shoot down someone's favourite rapper. There's a lot of rock fans that like Eminem and DMX, not cos theyre the best rappers but its their fave sound. And I know Black Thought isnt underground but his **** doesnt get released in the UK and rarely played on UK hip hop radios so its difficult for me to call him commercial.

And in 2000 I was 10 years old. But from young as I can remember I was forced if you like to listen to hip hop. I used to listen to Run DMC all the time when I was a kid and I bought reasonable doubt (cos the front cover looked cool lol) before I bought the slim shady lp.

But to be honest I've stopped listening to rap now. I have done for a few years. I wouldnt say hip hop is dead but the commercial side of it is. Now I'm into a different music style.

Em is a nice MC. I might have said I had him in my top 25, but after looking at the list Alpha made, it may be tough. Although I think he is better than some of those guys, Chuck D included. Besides for his political messages, Chuck is imo an average MC.

TECH N9NE beats everyone on that list except Nas!!!

25 MCs better than Eminem? Psssh...****in easy. Off the top of the dome, I can do this in my sleep even:
Rakim - Yeah he was better
Method Man- Nope
Tupac- In my opinion pac is better
Big Pun- I prefer Em but thats cos I dont like Pun's voice. Never have done.
Big Daddy Kane - Nope
AZ- Please...good rapper but not better than Em.
Ghostface Killah- Nope
KRS-1- Nope, you're not picking him on skills
Chuck D - No way
Jay-Z- I dont think so but it can be argued
Biggie- Yeah he was better
Busta Rhymes- Nooooo
Kool G Rap - Can be argued
Nas - Yeah
Common- Nope
Big L - Yeah
CL Smooth- No way
Cormega- Can be argued
Sean Price- Haven't heard too much of him
GZA- I dont think so
Guru - My fave rapper
Mos Def- I say no though a lot will say yes
Canibus - Yeah I would say Canibus is better
Slick Rick - ....the **** are you smoking?
Black Thought- No. And I wouldnt call him commercial.


I didn't even notice your "list" and explanations thereof. And its pretty laughable.

My favorites from your list...

25 MCs better than Eminem?
Method Man- Nope
Big Daddy Kane - Nope
AZ- Please...good rapper but not better than Em.
Ghostface Killah- Nope
KRS-1- Nope, you're not picking him on skills
Busta Rhymes- Nooooo
Slick Rick - ....the **** are you smoking?

lolz...Eminem is better than Big Daddy Kane, Meth, Slick Rick and AZ. Ya heard that everybody? Did you know that Slick Rick is arguably the FIRST lyrical rapper?

Naz, seriously you're too young to really have a coherent argument about all time rap greats. You're just in over your head, and I aint even talkin **** I'm being real. You can't have started listening to rap in 2000 and expect to be able to argue with someone whos been listening to it for almost 20 years. Because you picked up a 10 year old album and listened to it, you aint gonna appreciate it cuz you are from a whole different era. Your list is just blind because you don't know enough about any of those MCs to make good judgement.

Although I think he is better than some of those guys, Chuck D included. Besides for his political messages, Chuck is imo an average MC.
Yea I aint all that big on Chuck D. but his influence and catologue alone far surpasses that of Eminem. On that list, he can be switched out for numerous MCs...LL Cool J for one.

Naz, seriously you're too young to really have a coherent argument about all time rap greats. You're just in over your head, and I aint even talkin **** I'm being real. You can't have started listening to rap in 2000 and expect to be able to argue with someone whos been listening to it for almost 20 years. Because you picked up a 10 year old album and listened to it, you aint gonna appreciate it cuz you are from a whole different era. Your list is just blind because you don't know enough about any of those MCs to make good judgement.


Yea I aint all that big on Chuck D. but his influence and catologue alone far surpasses that of Eminem. On that list, he can be switched out for numerous MCs...LL Cool J for one.

What the ****? Are you ignorant or just plain stupid? I grew up on hip hop my older brother used to be a rapper and he had me listening to that **** from as young as I can remember.

And Slick Rick is not as good as Eminem you fool. Yes he was revoloutionary and changed hip hop and what not was the first lyrical rapper you say but that doesnt make him a better rapper than eminem. You are talking about rappers influences and thats why your arguement is complete bull****. Eminem is the better "rapper". Hands down. My favourite rappers are Guru, Immortal, jurrasic 5, not rappers that take their shirts off and shove grills in their mouth so please do not judge what I know about hip hop when you do not even know me. I did not start listening to hip hop in 2000 so once again you show up your ignorance.

I appreciate rap from all era's but maybe you're too stuck in the past to realise that rappers from this era are much more talented then ****ing Slick Rick. The Art of Story telling was a big ****ing album in my opinion but thats later work from him and cannot even be spoken about on the same scale as the MMLP.

And for the record I probably know much more about hip hop than you. I used to research a lot on American underground hip hop (you wont find out about that **** otherwise) and I know about European rap. To even think you can even brush off my arguements like that proves how ridiculous your ignorance is.

You have beef with 1 rapper cos he arguably became the biggest name outside of Hip Hop. If you base Eminem alone on his skills and the different types of songs he create then you cannot say he is a **** rapper.

What the ****? Are you ignorant or just plain stupid? I grew up on hip hop my older brother used to be a rapper and he had me listening to that **** from as young as I can remember.

And Slick Rick is not as good as Eminem you fool. Yes he was revoloutionary and changed hip hop and what not was the first lyrical rapper you say but that doesnt make him a better rapper than eminem. You are talking about rappers influences and thats why your arguement is complete bull****. Eminem is the better "rapper". Hands down. My favourite rappers are Guru, Immortal, jurrasic 5, not rappers that take their shirts off and shove grills in their mouth so please do not judge what I know about hip hop when you do not even know me. I did not start listening to hip hop in 2000 so once again you show up your ignorance.

I appreciate rap from all era's but maybe you're too stuck in the past to realise that rappers from this era are much more talented then ****ing Slick Rick. The Art of Story telling was a big ****ing album in my opinion but thats later work from him and cannot even be spoken about on the same scale as the MMLP.

And for the record I probably know much more about hip hop than you. I used to research a lot on American underground hip hop (you wont find out about that **** otherwise) and I know about European rap. To even think you can even brush off my arguements like that proves how ridiculous your ignorance is.

You have beef with 1 rapper cos he arguably became the biggest name outside of Hip Hop. If you base Eminem alone on his skills and the different types of songs he create then you cannot say he is a **** rapper.

Mother****er gimme a break...damn I was wrong all along, because your older brother listened to rap then that MUST mean you are a connoisseur. :lol1:

You know "much more about hip hop" than me. Yep, I'm sure, you are definitely proving it. You think Eminem is the second coming of Jesus. And guarantee you couldn't spit a single rhyme from 90% of the rappers on that list I made. You just ****in said YOURSELF that you don't listen to rap that much, if at all. If u haven't listened "for a few years", that means you stopped listening before you even hit ****in puberty!! So go argue about some heavy metal or English whips and chains ****. That is a joke as is your whole "knowledge" of rap.

You think Eminem is better than Big Daddy Kane, AZ and Slick Rick. That says it all. You probably have never heard a thing from any of those MCs, you just googled it now to seem like you had half a brain. You are a fool. A dumb little kid from Britain cannot argue with a man from New York about hip hop. Give it up.

Mother****er gimme a break...damn I was wrong all along, because your older brother listened to rap then that MUST mean you are a connoisseur. :lol1:

You know "much more about hip hop" than me. Yep, I'm sure, you are definitely proving it. You think Eminem is the second coming of Jesus. And guarantee you couldn't spit a single rhyme from 90% of the rappers on that list I made. You just ****in said YOURSELF that you don't listen to rap that much, if at all. So go argue about some heavy metal or English whips and chaisn ****. That is a joke as is your whole "knowledge" of rap.

You think Eminem is better than Big Daddy Kane, AZ and Slick Rick. That says it all. You probably have never heard a thing from any of those MCs, you just googled it now to seem like you had half a brain. You are a fool. A dumb little kid from Britain cannot argue with a man from New York about hip hop. Give it up.


He said his borther used to be a rapper, you still made me laugh my arse off though. And from some of the arguments ive seen you have on here it does seem you know your **** when it comes to Hip Hop

Mother****er gimme a break...damn I was wrong all along, because your older brother listened to rap then that MUST mean you are a connoisseur. :lol1:

You know "much more about hip hop" than me. Yep, I'm sure, you are definitely proving it. You think Eminem is the second coming of Jesus. And guarantee you couldn't spit a single rhyme from 90% of the rappers on that list I made. You just ****in said YOURSELF that you don't listen to rap that much, if at all. So go argue about some heavy metal or English whips and chaisn ****. That is a joke as is your whole "knowledge" of rap.

You think Eminem is better than Big Daddy Kane, AZ and Slick Rick. That says it all. You probably have never heard a thing from any of those MCs, you just googled it now to seem like you had half a brain. You are a fool. A dumb little kid from Britain cannot argue with a man from New York about hip hop. Give it up.


Britain cannot argue anything with a man from New York? ****ing hell the whole reason your crying like a little ***** is because of a rapper who was born in London haha. And my older brother used to rap and he is 9 years older than me meaning he was around in your so called era of greatness, I grew up listening to that ****.

Big daddy kane is not better than Eminem. Instrumental in Hip Hop's growth? Yes. Very good rapper for his time? Yes. That is the kind of bull**** you are basing your theories on.

And how can you say I havent heard anything from those rappers on that list. That proves how ****ing stupid you are. They were 25 commercial mc's you idiot. The only person who I havent heard much from is Sean Price. The rest I have good knowledge on. I didnt own any of AZ's **** but now I do thanks to you. The point is Eminem outraps most of the people on that list.

I'm out now. You made yourself look stupid as hell. Im not an Eminem fan boy, he is not my favourite rapper but even I can tell you half of the **** you have been writing is completely ridiculous and is not based on Eminem's skills but your beef with him, for probably introducing rap to a bunch of 12 year old girls.

Britain cannot argue anything with a man from New York? .

When it comes to hip hop? Plain and simply...NO.

Debating is one thing, u can state opinions all you want, don't matter what country u from. I respect all hip hop fans from anywhere. But when some 17 year old, alternative music listening little kid from Britain tries to act like he knows more hip hop than someone who was beat boxing and breaking as a little kid in 1986 on New York streets is just plain ****in stupid. So you just need to shutup and play your position. The end.

When it comes to hip hop? Plain and simply...NO.

Debating is one thing, u can state opinions all you want, don't matter what country u from. I respect all hip hop fans from anywhere. But when some 17 year old, alternative music listening little kid from Britain tries to act like he knows more hip hop than someone who was beat boxing and breaking as a little kid in 1986 on New York streets is just plain ****in stupid. So you just need to shutup and play your position. The end.

Alternative music listener? Wicked so you know my music taste now aswell. I said I stopped listening to hip hop about a year ago and started listening to UK grime cos I can relate to it more and it has more realism to it. I dont give a **** if your from New York and can spin on your head, that doesnt show that your opinion is greater than mine?

Unless your a breakdancer with a Kangol hat and BDK t shirt. That might explain why you think Slick Rick is a better lyricist than Eminem...

pwahahaha...

I said I stopped listening to hip hop about a year ago
pw
Jesus, must I use your own words against you?

But to be honest I've stopped listening to rap now. I have done for a few years. I wouldnt say hip hop is dead but the commercial side of it is. Now I'm into a different music style.

I'm sure you'll think of some lame comeback or a way to explain that. If you're 17 and haven't been listening to hip hop for a few years, that means you have never really listened to hip hop at all. You are a novice on every level of the scale. Your brother must have not been a very good mentor either. He probably thinks Maestro Fresh Wes is one of the greatest MCs of all time. Maybe that explains your complete lack of history and knowledge.

I rarely listen to hip hop anymore. So what? Is this a thread asking the best rapper of 06/07? No. I still listen to hip hop of course but just not any material of this year. The other day my bro gave me Cormega's new album (I think it was) to listen to. Was pretty ill. But I dont go searching for new hip hop stuff anymore. The commercial stuff is now all southern bull**** and the nearest place to me that sold the more underground records now only sells grime so I been listening to that now.

And the simple fact is you cant argue your point without posting some dumb insulting ****. I wasnt an Eminem fan boy jumping up telling you Eminem is the best rapper in the world. But because I personally like Eminem and think he is much better than these rappers you mention you thought to attack my viewpoints?

I'll tell u right now... I can be brash when it comes to arguing about this stuff. My passion is evident because I'm a hardcore fan of the golden era and hip hop was my life when I was a kid. If I think someone is spittin nonsense, I come out with my guns blazing. I personally think some of the stuff u and PBX said has been very uneducated and just flat out wrong.

I just think you have limitations when it comes to this argument. You can argue Eminem is a great MC but your arguments to support such was a matter of discrediting rappers who are clearly more influential and better in the eyes of many people.

I dont discredit any rapper. They were important in hip hop's growth but I just dont see them as good as people of this era. When I was younger about 13/14/15 hip hop was a huge part of my life. I went through a lot of depression and hard times and as corny as it sounds it was hip hop that helped me out through those years. I just dont like being put into the same category as a fan boy that was only introduced to hip hop when Eminem came out when I've been around it my whole life.

I'll tell u right now... I can be brash when it comes to arguing about this stuff. My passion is evident because I'm a hardcore fan of the golden era and hip hop was my life when I was a kid. If I think someone is spittin nonsense, I come out with my guns blazing. I personally think some of the stuff u and PBX said has been very uneducated and just flat out wrong.

I just think you have limitations when it comes to this argument. You can argue Eminem is a great MC but your arguments to support such was a matter of discrediting rappers who are clearly more influential and better in the eyes of many people.woah, first of all, just because i explained that imo eminem is the best rapper alive, doesn't mean i disrespected other rappers. if anything, you're one of the people on here who have disrespected a rapper... ummm.... eminem maybe? yes, just because you're not a fan of his, doesn't mean you have to disrespect him. i have given credit to many hiphop icons and legends before eminem, you have tried to spit on his legacy with your posts. so what if many people find other rappers more influential than eminem.. that's them, so what does that have to do with you? do you base your opinions and arguments off of what other people think? are you not your own person? do you not live your own life? if you disagree with me or naz-fan then that's fine, but to say we haven't given any reasonable arguments and facts to support our claims is downright silly on your part, and just proves that you either don't know how to read well, or you skimmed through our posts and take bits and pieces out to argue against us with. that's what you call disrespectful analyzing. i have given so many reasons and examples to support my claims and naz-fan has given well thought arguments in his posts as well. you're the one who tries to insult us with name calling because you don't agree with us. what's that saying about you? you're closed-minded when it comes to eminem. and you tend to be closed-minded when it comes to arguing on this thread too.

Was he really 10 in 2000?! If he were that would account for alot. It makes perfect sense that he would think that Eminem introduced non-gangster content into rap music. Well Pbftx just so you know, 80's rap was pretty much devoid of "gangsta" content with the exception of Kool G rap, who really didn't catch on untill he started to emphasize battle rap. All Rap music my friend was about the "other things" in life at that time. In the early 90's Hammer was still big lol and nonviolent jazz inspired groups like a Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul and Digable Planets were the standard. Gangsta rap didn't really take off untill "The Chronic". To put it simply, rap music was non-gangsta rap while the street controlled the market for atleast three times longer than it was gangsta rap (and by this I am talking about what was most dominant). So rappers talked about "other things" for a very long time, Eminem was not some revolutionary that introduced this. I can't blame you for assuming that though, I would too if I was your age.hello res, maybe you didn't read correctly, as i put at the timewhen eminem was on top, not in the 80s, when eminem wasn't mainstream then. i know what hammer did, just like i know what a tribe called quest, and leaders of the new school did, and nwa, and vanilla ice, etc did. i was referring to a specific timeframe when i made my point, yet, once again, you must have disregarded it, like you seem to always do.

I didn't even notice your "list" and explanations thereof. And its pretty laughable.

My favorites from your list...


lolz...Eminem is better than Big Daddy Kane, Meth, Slick Rick and AZ. Ya heard that everybody? Did you know that Slick Rick is arguably the FIRST lyrical rapper?

Naz, seriously you're too young to really have a coherent argument about all time rap greats. You're just in over your head, and I aint even talkin **** I'm being real. You can't have started listening to rap in 2000 and expect to be able to argue with someone whos been listening to it for almost 20 years. Because you picked up a 10 year old album and listened to it, you aint gonna appreciate it cuz you are from a whole different era. Your list is just blind because you don't know enough about any of those MCs to make good judgement.


Yea I aint all that big on Chuck D. but his influence and catologue alone far surpasses that of Eminem. On that list, he can be switched out for numerous MCs...LL Cool J for one.you see that where your close mindedness comes in. just because naz-fan has a different opinion than you, he is wrong? then what does that make you to someone else who has a different opinion than you? you are trying to push your opinions off as if they were facts, and it's easy for me ans naz-fan to argue back against you because you're doing that. so because slick rick was the arguably the 1st lyrical rapper, that makes him better than eminem? there is no right answer to this? there are only opinions and arguments, that's it. it you really want to get into it, i know many would say eminem is a much better lyricist than method man and slick rick, not to say that they aren't nice, but let's put in into context for a little bit. when you have top 10 lists, whether it's on mtv2, mtv, bet, vh1, or whatever channel and it has a panelist of black musicians who were pavesetters in hiphop, as well as hiphop historians, many to most of them would have eminem in the top 6 or 7 or even higher let alone top 10. don't believe me, just go and watch them. he would be ranked above slick rick, who was a amazing lyricist and storyteller, and obviously pavesetter for his time, method man, big daddy kane, gza, az, and many other rappers, and why is this? is it because they don't know hip hop music either. they must be too young? no, i think you know better than to answer yes to that one. they put him on the lists, because of his lyircal ability, his impact in rap music, his energy in his songs, his wordplay, flow, rhyme scheme, ability to change his style of flow(which he has done, just listne to mmlp and eminem show alone). there was just a show last year on mtv2, that had hiphop historians like sway and some other cats who place eminem at number 9 all time, above ll cool j, and below ice cube. now, if you listne to em's music and ice cube's music, and compare their flow, many people i'm sure would say em's flow is much better. but, it depends what you look for in an mc to make these decisions, which is why there'll never truly be an all time greatest mc, even if many people agree with a certain rapper taking that acolade, it's a matter of taste like em said in renegades. that's all it is. it's a matter of taste.

Nice post pbftxrs316. If people put their prejudices aside and base it purely on the abilities of the rapper then Eminem is in no way crappy. The fact that we're talking about rappers who arent in this selected time era on this poll just shows how the topic gone way off.

A common thing I hear is how ****ty Encore is. Encore is no worse than Kingdom Come IMO.

hello res, maybe you didn't read correctly, as i put at the timewhen eminem was on top, not in the 80s, when eminem wasn't mainstream then. i know what hammer did, just like i know what a tribe called quest, and leaders of the new school did, and nwa, and vanilla ice, etc did. i was referring to a specific timeframe when i made my point, yet, once again, you must have disregarded it, like you seem to always do.

Well PBFTXRS i was basing this on the fact that you said that Eminem was a revolutionary figure in Hip Hop. To me a revolutionary figure is someone that introduces something new (atleast as far as the feild of art is concerned). You said that he was a revolutionary figure at a time when everyone was talking about guns violence and blunts....the implication is clear.

Well PBFTXRS i was basing this on the fact that you said that Eminem was a revolutionary figure in Hip Hop. To me a revolutionary figure is someone that introduces something new (atleast as far as the feild of art is concerned). You said that he was a revolutionary figure at a time when everyone was talking about guns violence and blunts....the implication is clear.

does it not depend on the way you look at it?, because..... people have different prospectives on different matters.

Well PBFTXRS i was basing this on the fact that you said that Eminem was a revolutionary figure in Hip Hop. To me a revolutionary figure is someone that introduces something new (atleast as far as the feild of art is concerned). You said that he was a revolutionary figure at a time when everyone was talking about guns violence and blunts....the implication is clear.
okay, and where are you going with this? how was he not revolutionary? was stan not revolutionary when it came to music videos and creativity? was em's controversial videos and over the top songs not revolutionary? so revolutionary to you means someone introducing something new in hip hop right? so, did eminem not introduce new things in hip hop? was there another blonde hair rapper or any rapper period that bagged on their mother, wife, pop stars, and other celebrities and was successful in doing so? not that i'm aware of? did eminem not make being goofy at the same time controversy popular? i think he did. did he not lead a movement in hip hop with his music? yes he did. was he the 1st rapper to lead a movement in rap? no, but he was the 1st white solo rapper to be respected as a lyricist in mainstream hiphop. that's revolutionary in itself imo, but like someone else explained, it all depends on your view of revolutionary. to me, revolutionary is bringing something new as well but also changing the way something or someone is viewed. let me explain a little more in depth.

here's an example, the wrestler stone cold steve austin revolutionzied the wwf/e with his tough man persona and here's how. during the time he was rising up the ranks in the wwf, the definition of a face was a hulk hogan like character who always smiled at the fans and gave them compliments, and was a positive role model to the kids. you had the same thing with bret hart, the ultimate warrior, and other superhero like characters. then comes a guy named steve austin who was the complete oppisite of a positive character. he cussed, drank beer, beat up the good guys and bad guys(something new at the time), gave foul finger gestures, and more negative influential things, but in turn became very popular. he did heelish things, but eventually got cheered heavily over it. he changed the way a face(good guy) and a heel(bad guy) was viewed with his character which was an extension of his personality, and he became next to hulk hogan, the biggest draw in united states history in regards to professional wrestling. but, i think you get my point, i compare steve austin a lot to eminem, because of their controversial messages to kids, but they were both very popular in what they did. em revolutionized rap with his charcters and austin revolutionized rap with his character, and they both are the biggest money makers for their respected businesses. em's the all time album seller, and austin in the wwf/e is the all time merchandise seller and draw. so, that's what i meant when i explained revolutionary. but, i do understand what you mean though, and it was a fair assessment on your part, i wasn't trying to downtype your argument, just trying to shed some light on what i meant, that's all.