When I make a list of who were the top 175ers of all times, i look at two things. How well they did at thier own weight against fighters of thier size and how well they did in higher weights. I dont really care if they beat welterweights and middleweights, then moved up to 175. Either way this is my list.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Gene Tunney
3. Archie Moore
4. Michael Spinks
5. Bob Foster
6. Roy Jones Jr.
7. Billy Conn
8. Maxie Rosenbloom
9. Jose Torres
10. Tommy Loughran

Honourable mentions: qawi, saad muhammad, galindez, liesnivich, virgill hill, DM, marvin johnson.

I could never get behind an all-time top ten ranking for Georges Carpentier in this division, but that's just me.

actually i made a mistake, i'm gonna replace carpentier with jose torres.

When I make a list of who were the top 175ers of all times, i look at two things. How well they did at thier own weight against fighters of thier size and how well they did in higher weights. I dont really care if they beat welterweights and middleweights, then moved up to 175. Either way this is my list.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Gene Tunney
3. Archie Moore
4. Michael Spinks
5. Bob Foster
6. Roy Jones Jr.
7. Billy Conn
8. Maxie Rosenbloom
9. Jose Torres
10. Tommy Loughran

Honourable mentions: qawi, saad muhammad, galindez, liesnivich, virgill hill, DM, marvin johnson.

Damn good list actually. We differ a little in some rankings; but overall...damn good list.

Saad Muhammad fought tough ass comp from 1976-1982, i really want to put him in my top 10 but he kinda ruined his career from 1983-1992. He should have quit after the 2nd loss to qawi.

I heard he is one of the most exciting fighters to have ever lived.

Saad Muhammad fought tough ass comp from 1976-1982, i really want to put him in my top 10 but he kinda ruined his career from 1983-1992. He should have quit after the 2nd loss to qawi.

I heard he is one of the most exciting fighters to have ever lived.

If you can ever get your hands on a copy of Muhammad-Lopez from 1980, do it. Hell of a war. The thing about Muhammad was that you could never count hiim out. He'd take a beating and then when his opponent had punche himself out, back he'd come. Incredible heart.


....and I would hold his later career experiences against him; he was past his best at that point and those losses shouldn't count against him. When ranking a fighter, take his best......not his post-prime losses.

If you can ever get your hands on a copy of Muhammad-Lopez from 1980, do it. Hell of a war. The thing about Muhammad was that you could never count hiim out. He'd take a beating and then when his opponent had punche himself out, back he'd come. Incredible heart.You got your money's worth with a Saad Muhammad fight but unfortunately Saad went to the well one too many times. Too many brink of defeat tough fights will catch up to any fighter and it did for Saad by the time of the first Qawi fight.

The thing i like about the light heavyweight division is that there is always talent in it. There are periods in which the heavyweight division is virtually dead but this never happens with the guys at 175. IMO, the 175 division had 3 golden time periods. The 1920's, mid 40's- early 50's and 1975-1985 was awesome too. During those 10 years you had qawi, eddie mustafa, rossman, spinks, marvin johnson, victor emilio galindez, and a bunch of contenders.

IMO, saad fought better comp as champ than spinks did. He had 9 title defences against tough ass fighters, you have to respect that.

You got your money's worth with a Saad Muhammad fight but unfortunately Saad went to the well one too many times. Too many brink of defeat tough fights will catch up to any fighter and it did for Saad by the time of the first Qawi fight.

Yeah, no doubt. Still, the sport could use more blood and guts come-back-from-the-brink-of-destruction fighters. You can't not love them.

Off Topic, SABBATH; but is that you in your Avie?

Off Topic, SABBATH; but is that you in your Avie?

Good God, for his sake I would hope not.

Off Topic, SABBATH; but is that you in your Avie?
Yes it is.

would anyone else like to post thier list of top 10 at 175. Who here thinks that 1975-1985 may have been the peak of the division.

The mid/late 70's era for the light heavyweight division was wonderful as far as depth goes, and a good amount of that depth did spill over into the first couple years of the 1980's, but come 1985 the depth of the division had fallen off quite a bit over the recent years and was pretty weak in comparisions to what it had been 5 to 10 years earlier.

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Gene Tunney
3. Archie Moore
4. Billy Conn
5. Michael Spinks
6. Roy Jones Jr.
7. Sam Langford
8. Bob Foster
9. "Philadelphia" Jack O'Brien
10. Maxie Rosenbloom

Good God, for his sake I would hope not.I won't put much weight into the personal slur since it's coming from another time zone.

Yes it is.

Pro or amateur, or jes posing? Record?

Couple of years ago I presume. ;)

I gotta learn from K-Dogg and make better use of those smilies.

I gotta learn from K-Dogg and make better use of those smilies.


:D They do help pre-empt any potentially misconstued interpretations of the written word. :biggthump

Well, ususally. :puppy_dog

Pro or amateur, or jes posing? Record?
Couple of years ago I presume. ;)That was about 10 years ago at MGM studios in front of a wall that was plastered with 1930's fight posters. I just siezed a good photo-op.

I used to train as an amateur out of McGrory's Gym in Hamilton Ontario from the ages of 13-18. McGrory's used to host a fight card every year at John A MacDonald High School and one of the boxing clubs that used to attend was from the nearby town of Kitchener.

Kitchener Boxing Club had a big tall heavyweight who always came to the the fight cards but never fought because none of the other clubs had a heavyweight so he would sit and watch and cheer for his teammates when they fought.

The heavyweight was always announced to the crowd as an Olympic hopeful and I used to go out of my way to talk to him. He was very quite and polite and the last time I saw him was in early 1984 and I wished him luck on making the team and going to the Los Angeles Olympics.

That was the last time I spoke with Lennox Lewis.

That was about 10 years ago at MGM studios in front of a wall that was plastered with 1930's fight posters. I just siezed a good photo-op.

I used to train as an amateur out of McGrory's Gym in Hamilton Ontario from the ages of 13-18. McGrory's used to host a fight card every year at John A MacDonald High School and one of the boxing clubs that used to attend was from the nearby town of Kitchener.

Kitchener Boxing Club had a big tall heavyweight who always came to the the fight cards but never fought because none of the other clubs had a heavyweight so he would sit and watch and cheer for his teammates when they fought.

The heavyweight was always announced to the crowd as an Olympic hopeful and I used to go out of my way to talk to him. He was very quite and polite and the last time I saw him was in early 1984 and I wished him luck on making the team and going to the Los Angeles Olympics.

That was the last time I spoke with Lennox Lewis.

Ur profile says ur like 90! U most definatley aint 80 in that pic!

That was about 10 years ago at MGM studios in front of a wall that was plastered with 1930's fight posters. I just siezed a good photo-op.

I used to train as an amateur out of McGrory's Gym in Hamilton Ontario from the ages of 13-18. McGrory's used to host a fight card every year at John A MacDonald High School and one of the boxing clubs that used to attend was from the nearby town of Kitchener.

Kitchener Boxing Club had a big tall heavyweight who always came to the the fight cards but never fought because none of the other clubs had a heavyweight so he would sit and watch and cheer for his teammates when they fought.

The heavyweight was always announced to the crowd as an Olympic hopeful and I used to go out of my way to talk to him. He was very quite and polite and the last time I saw him was in early 1984 and I wished him luck on making the team and going to the Los Angeles Olympics.

That was the last time I spoke with Lennox Lewis.


Great Story, bud! :)


...makes me wish there had been an amateur boxing program in my hometown when I was a youth, though my parents would have been deadset against it. I had to settle for backyard fisticuffs. :(

Oh well, water under the bridge. That's very cool that you've got those experiences and got to meet a future heavyweight champ. That really is something special. :)

Spinks has only fought 32 times and he has a solid ass resume. Larry holmes x2, gerry cooney, eddie mustafa, marvin johnson, dwight muhammad qawi, and about 7 solid contenders at 175. He deserves to be ranked in the top 5. Guys like leonard, curry, hagler and hearns wouldn't have moved up to fight him, they knew they would lose.

Great Story, bud! :)


...makes me wish there had been an amateur boxing program in my hometown when I was a youth. I had to settle for backyard fisticuffs. :(

Oh well, water under the bridge. That's very cool that you've got those experiences and got to meet a future heavyweight champ. That really is something. :)Oh I did the backyard/basement fights as well. We had one between two guys in high school that made Hagler-Hearns look like a lovemaking session.

When it came to formal boxing I had to go to another town to train which was a pain. I'm from a white collar city so boxing clubs didn't exist here when I was growing up.

I should mention that although McGrory's Gym was a gritty, tiny little basement gym it did produce a pretty good middleweight who I trained alongside by the name of Dan Sherry who fought Chris Eubank for the title as well as Vinny Pazienza, Nigel Benn and Doug Dewitt.

Dan ended up being trained by Sugar Ray Leonard who came to town in August of 1990 and I was able to meet Ray and have my picture taken with him.

I don't have a recent light heavyweight ranking, nor do I really have the time coming up with one that I'd be happy with (great historical depth to the division...one of the very deepest with lots of guys to consider), but, in some kind of order, my top three would consist of Langford, Charles and Moore.

Oh I did the backyard/basement fights as well. We had one between two guys in high school that made Hagler-Hearns look like a lovemaking session.

When it came to formal boxing I had to go to another town to train which was a pain. I'm from a white collar city so boxing clubs didn't exist here when I was growing up.

I should mention that although McGrory's Gym was a gritty, tiny little basement gym it did produce a pretty good middleweight who I trained alongside by the name of Dan Sherry who fought Chris Eubank for the title as well as Vinny Pazienza, Nigel Benn and Doug Dewitt.

Dan ended up being trained by Sugar Ray Leonard who came to town in August of 1990 and I was able to meet Ray and have my picture taken with him.


Wow. Damn I'm envious. Thanks for the story. :)

I don't have a recent light heavyweight ranking, nor do I really have the time coming up with one that I'd be happy with (great historical depth to the division...one of the very deepest with lots of guys to consider), but, in some kind of order, my top three would consist of Langford, Charles and Moore.


I know what you mean. That list I pulled out of my butt is starting to bother me in certain areas as the ghosts of great fighters not on it are yelling at me and giving me dirty looks. :(

I know what you mean. That list I pulled out of my butt is starting to bother me in certain areas as the ghosts of great fighters not on it are yelling at me and giving me dirty looks. :(

Your ranking looks good with these eyes, though (as does Brownpimp's). I mean, my own personal ranking would certainly look different than yours, but each and every one of the fighters you named would recieve a sizable amount of consideration from me for top ten inclusion. Then again, so would about a dozen (possibly more) other light heavyweights throughout history, as again, both the overall historical depth of the division and the parity right down the line are rather exceptional.

Your ranking looks good with these eyes, though (as does Brownpimp's). I mean, my own personal ranking would certainly look different than yours, but each and every one of the fighters you named would recieve a sizable amount of consideration from me for top ten inclusion. Then again, so would about a dozen (possibly more) other light heavyweights throughout history, as again, both the overall historical depth of the division and the parity right down the line are rather exceptional.

If we were to judge matthew saad based on his career from 1976-1981, does he have a case for being top 10. His resume of opponents during those 6 years in incredible. He should have quit after the 2nd qawi fight.

There were several Great Light Heavyweights. Ezzard Charles was a Light Heavyweight or lighter, most of his career, so was Gene Tunney and Jimmy Bivins fought a lot of his bouts as a Light Heavyweight.

Of the Light Heavyweight Champions, you had Archie Moore, Billy Conn, Tommy Loughran, Bob Foster, Michael Spinks and Roy Jones Jr.

Here's what I found:

Boxing's Best of the Century
Dateline: 12/30/99

Light Heavyweight Fighter of Century as chosen by a five-member panel for The Associated Press:

1. Archie Moore, 194-26-8, 141 KO's. 1936-63. 28 years active.

2. Billy Conn, 63-11-1, 14 KO's. 1934-48. 11 years active.

3. Ezzard Charles, 96-25-1, 58 KO's. 1940-59. 17 years active.

4. Roy Jones Jr., 40-1, 33 KO's. 1989-still active.

5. Jimmy Bivins, 86-25-1, 31 KO's. 1940-55. 15 years active.

tie. Bob Foster, 56-8-1, 46 KO's. 1961-78. 18 years active.

7. Harold Johnson, 76-11, 32 KO's. 1946-71. 23 years active.

8. Philadelphia Jack O'Brien, 100-7-16, 46 KO's, 33 ND. 1901-12. 12 years active.

tie. Tiger Jack Fox, 120-18-6, 81 KO's, 1932-50. 17 years active.

10. Maxie Rosenbloom, 208-37-22, 19 KO's, 22 ND. 1923-39. 15 years active.

Note: Career denotes years of first and last fights; years active is number of years with at least one fight.

I am surprised that Spinks wasn't rated by the AP.

Its just someone else's opinion, the IBHOF rankes spinks in the top 4. Ring Magazine ranks him as the 41st best fighter to ever live, not many LHs were ranked ahead of him.

This one I did in about 2 minutes. It's not definite, so don't flame me.;)

1. Ezzard Charles
2. Archie Moore
3. Roy Jones Jr.
4. Bob Foster
5. Michael Spinks
6. Michael Moorer
7. Gene Tunney
8. Sam Langford
9. Harold Johnson
10. Billy Conn

Roy Jones should be #1, he was damn near perfection in his prime...

hmmm...quick list...

ezzard charles
mongoose moore
gene tunney
sam langford
mike spinks
billy conn
bob foster
roy jones
slapsie rosenbloom
harold johnson

ton of depth there...hard to pick one from another in some spots.