View Full Version : Intelligent Design


The Noose
01-24-2007, 06:15 AM
So there is a whole debate about this theory being taught in schools alongside evolution.
Some say its just another way of forcing religous beliefs into schools. Others think it is a plausable theory and therefore is scientific, not religious.

It isnt the same as creationism. Or is it?

It is possible to believe in Intelligent Design without believeing in God?

For me, i think its very interesting. And is the closest i come to believing in a creator.
Anyone know more about this idea?

eazy_mas
01-24-2007, 07:50 AM
So there is a whole debate about this theory being taught in schools alongside evolution.
Some say its just another way of forcing religous beliefs into schools. Others think it is a plausable theory and therefore is scientific, not religious.

It isnt the same as creationism. Or is it?

It is possible to believe in Intelligent Design without believeing in God?

For me, i think its very interesting. And is the closest i come to believing in a creator.
Anyone know more about this idea?

i think yes some part but not the whole ape turning to human thing.

for example if you see some animals like pigeon long time ago they where abit huge meat-eating dinosaurs as well as some people develop and evolve to the surrounding like a red head in irland and light skined people in the british isls and darker skin in africa something like that.

Harms
01-24-2007, 08:57 AM
So there is a whole debate about this theory being taught in schools alongside evolution.
Some say its just another way of forcing religous beliefs into schools. Others think it is a plausable theory and therefore is scientific, not religious.

It isnt the same as creationism. Or is it?

It is possible to believe in Intelligent Design without believeing in God?

For me, i think its very interesting. And is the closest i come to believing in a creator.
Anyone know more about this idea?

Yes it is possible to believe in ID without believing in God. Aliens came and genetically engineered cromagnon man into the human we see today. If you replace angels, devils, and God in the bible with aliens, it seems more plausible explanation to me.

Welter_Skelter
01-24-2007, 09:09 AM
ASk a man 4000 years ago what he would think of a being who could create life.. and 4000 year ago man would call that being GOD..
We are not an accident.. we are far to intricate and technical.. We were made.. GOD CREATOR it all means the same thing...

eazy_mas
01-24-2007, 11:52 AM
ASk a man 4000 years ago what he would think of a being who could create life.. and 4000 year ago man would call that being GOD..
We are not an accident.. we are far to intricate and technical.. We were made.. GOD CREATOR it all means the same thing...

i agree with you

Alpha Male
01-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Intelligent Design is merely Creationism in disguise. It promotes the Bible's view of creation. It is not based on the scientific method - one of the basic rules in science.

If you're gonna say we were created by a Creator, then you have ask the question...who created the Creator? How did it come into existence? It's a never ending cycle.

K-DOGG
01-25-2007, 12:49 PM
I honestly don't know that much about it, which is odd because I essentially believe in it's premise. :dunno:

kayjay
01-27-2007, 10:48 AM
Intelligent Design is merely Creationism in disguise. It promotes the Bible's view of creation. It is not based on the scientific method - one of the basic rules in science.

If you're gonna say we were created by a Creator, then you have ask the question...who created the Creator? How did it come into existence? It's a never ending cycle.

Well said, Alpha. "Intelligent Design" is the name both of a theory and a widespread effort to disguise creationism as a scientific theory, in order to salvage religious values in education.

Alpha is correct to say that the theory is not arrived at on the basis of conventional scientific method.

Philosophically speaking, "intelligent design" appeals to a very much hopeless set of inferences, more traditionally referred to as 'teleological'. Intelligent design is a kind of revival of the 'teleological argument for the existence of God', which in rigorous academic philosophy has seen no proponents in nearly two centuries, and even then it could not have been considered respectable.

Intelligent Design is itself by no means a plausible (scientifically speaking) alternative to the theory of Natural Selection. The whole of modern biology (INCLUDING MEDICAL SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) is dependant upon the notion that order does in fact arise from disorder (this apart from the philosophical observation that from the appearance of design one CANNOT infer an actual designer).

In sum, although there are no certainties in science, evolution/natural selection is about as close as they come. There are not, contrary to the very misleading popular rallying cry, remarkable weaknesses or 'holes' in the theory. Denying natural selection is roughly akin to calling the world flat.

"intelligent Design" in the schools might amount to a political victory for partly educated and deviously minded preachers and church leaders, but it would amount to a shameful loss for children, educators, science, and probably humanity.

It just ain't so.

hemichromis
01-27-2007, 12:35 PM
Yes it is possible to believe in ID without believing in God. Aliens came and genetically engineered cromagnon man into the human we see today. If you replace angels, devils, and God in the bible with aliens, it seems more plausible explanation to me.

add $10,000 sent to a reclusive 'guru' and you have scientology!

intelligent design is a theory. in schools only proven facts should be taught as theories are constantly being disproved. when do you think scientology will be part of the syllabus?

Kid Achilles
01-27-2007, 01:00 PM
Well technically even gravity is only a theory. The fact is, if I drop a ball it will probably fall to the ground. I'm 99.999999999999999repeating% sure this will happen each time. We theorize this is because of what we've come to call gravity. Yes, gravity is still a theory.

Some "facts" are stronger than others but nothing can be proven to be true for complete certainty in science. As it is we're constantly revising what is "accepted" by contemporary scientists.

Personally I don't want anything about a God or a creator taught in schools in my country. Leave that for church of whatever religion the child belongs to, if any, but let's keep the line of secularism clear cut and bold for the sake of objectivity and keeping dogmata in the USA to a minimum.

Religion taught in any form other than as literature has no place in the public school curriculum IMO. The belief that there is an intelligent creator is a spiritual assertion and does not yet have a place in cold hard science. It's a theory based on speculation and not rigorous experimentation and field study (unlike gravity and to a lesser degree, evolution).

Evolution is the best answer we have right now. Do I believe in an intelligent creator? I don't rule it out, that would be extremely arrgogant. Still, I'm not comfortable with having future generations learning it as a fact.

It's bad enough that we depict native americans as pesky obstacles and "villains" to the heroic settlers.

Oasis_Lad
01-27-2007, 01:02 PM
spot on kid.......... k sent.

Dirt E Gomez
01-27-2007, 01:08 PM
I concur with Kid and Kayjay.

Intelligent design is an attempt to cover up the fact that they're trying to teach Creationism. Apperently, they believed by adding the word Intelligent that they'd fool more Americans into think it was something worthwhile.

Regardless of my standpoint on Religion; the bottom line is that it's putting Religion where it doesn't belong; in schools.

It does raise a question though... how do you teach I.D.? Like, that would take 15 seconds. I think it'd go something like this, "There's a God, maybe not yours.... Well he created all of this and he planned it out so even if an evolution of sorts takes place it was his idea.... Get it?"

Kid Achilles
01-27-2007, 01:16 PM
Right, aside from being a clear breach of the secular nature of our country it's also just plain unneccesary for the reason you just stated. You could just say "evolution and all other sciences are just God's design". Easy enough.

This has really gotten me thinking. As someone who is considering a career in education, I'd love to see an example of an ID textbook. Just for curiosity's sake.

hemichromis
01-27-2007, 02:42 PM
Well technically even gravity is only a theory. The fact is, if I drop a ball it will probably fall to the ground. I'm 99.999999999999999repeating% sure this will happen each time. We theorize this is because of what we've come to call gravity. Yes, gravity is still a theory.

Some "facts" are stronger than others but nothing can be proven to be true for complete certainty in science. As it is we're constantly revising what is "accepted" by contemporary scientists.

Personally I don't want anything about a God or a creator taught in schools in my country. Leave that for church of whatever religion the child belongs to, if any, but let's keep the line of secularism clear cut and bold for the sake of objectivity and keeping dogmata in the USA to a minimum.

Religion taught in any form other than as literature has no place in the public school curriculum IMO. The belief that there is an intelligent creator is a spiritual assertion and does not yet have a place in cold hard science. It's a theory based on speculation and not rigorous experimentation and field study (unlike gravity and to a lesser degree, evolution).

Evolution is the best answer we have right now. Do I believe in an intelligent creator? I don't rule it out, that would be extremely arrgogant. Still, I'm not comfortable with having future generations learning it as a fact.

It's bad enough that we depict native americans as pesky obstacles and "villains" to the heroic settlers.


their are no absolute certainties of course but i am talking reasonable doubt.

ID is one of many MANY theories of which evolution is te only one that can be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
I am not saying its impossible that a god created everything just not likely considering the only available evidence.
It's like hearing Hoof beats and thinking Zebra!

The Noose
01-27-2007, 03:24 PM
I think ID differs from Creationism in that it hasnt anything to do with what the bible teaches.

I think it is based more on the mathamatical probability in the existance of life, and all of its complexities. (sp)
I remember a documentry stating that if the elementry building blocks of life were to be altered by the smallest degree, life would simply not exist.
And that evolution does not explain how these elemental building blocks are such intricate complex 'machines', that appear to have their purpose (to work together in order to create a living cell) already in-built into them.

Some stuff from the web. Interesting or not?
"Intelligent design (ID) is a teleological argument for the existence of God[1] stated in secular terms based on the premise that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."

the fundamental claim of intelligent design is that "there are natural systems that cannot be adequately explained in terms of undirected natural forces and that exhibit features which in any other circumstance we would attribute to intelligence."

Intelligent design deliberately does not try to identify or name the specific agent of creation ***8211; it merely states that one (or more) must exist.

Alpha Male
01-27-2007, 05:06 PM
Intelligent Design argues that there is evidence that humans could not have become as we are by evolution and chance. But the arguments are flawed, and are not based on science. They are incorrect even in their basic assumptions, such as the argument about irreducable complexity. Any and all of these examples, such as the human eye and the bombardier beetle, have been shown by science to be, well, unscientific. Their anatomy is wrong, their understanding of biology is wrong, their grasp of basic principles is wrong. No serious scientist fails to realize this upon examination of the arguments.

Intelligent design is old wine in new bottles. Still crap. It's ironic they desperatley try to use the status of science to attack evolution. But it fails every part of the scientific method. I wonder what they will try next?

Sin City
01-28-2007, 12:45 PM
Right, aside from being a clear breach of the secular nature of our country it's also just plain unneccesary for the reason you just stated. You could just say "evolution and all other sciences are just God's design". Easy enough.

This has really gotten me thinking. As someone who is considering a career in education, I'd love to see an example of an ID textbook. Just for curiosity's sake.
read "Of Pandas and People"... You will soon abandone your thoughts on teaching it in school when you see the logic in "Intelegent Design" Books. For a big protion of it it just talks about why evolution is wrong, how there is too many wholes in the theory (not true) and how Intelegent Design could exist but they don't give any evidence.

LHWchamp5
01-28-2007, 01:46 PM
dont think anyboyd can be certain about how we came to be, however i am certain that LIZARDS will rule the planet once more..
With global warming becomming a reality, not just somthing scientists enjoy tlaking about, it's a known fact that lizards are already being caught larger than any previously recorded sizes..
It's known that in warm climates lizards thrive, when the dinosaurs ruled it's thought that average temps on earth were alot warmer than they are now but i'm unsure of any temp ranges(off the top of my head)

As years go on and temps get warmer we will see the size of lizards adn reptiles grow..

Question:
1.It's thought that birds evolved from dinosaurs. Will th de-evolve back into dino's or is evolution a one way track??
2. If we as humans lived in harsher conditions would we evolve to stronger beings through generations??
with all this medicine help and pussiness, are we evolving into weaker beings??
3.Since we KNOW for certain that lizards and reptiles were here before we were, are they ID as well, How do we konw we didn't evolve from the dino's?? i mean if the birds did y not us?? besides we have plenty of monkies now i've never heard of somebody seeing it evolve into a person.. have you??

Too bad we didnt' figure out how to get wings :)

The Noose
01-30-2007, 04:54 PM
3.Since we KNOW for certain that lizards and reptiles were here before we were, are they ID as well, How do we konw we didn't evolve from the dino's?? i mean if the birds did y not us?? besides we have plenty of monkies now i've never heard of somebody seeing it evolve into a person.. have you??





How is it possible to not understand the basics of evolution?

OptimusWolf
02-13-2007, 11:09 AM
Whether or not ID is a croc of ****e or not (I personally read the excerpts Bobby P had put up and think it smells a lot like crap) I don't think this is something we should be teaching kids in schools. The whole subject of the worlds origins are not exactly the best use of teaching time when we have kids coming out of school unable to communicate and think analytically. This is what schools should be focusing on.

This is a US issue right, because I can't remember being taught evolution or creationism at school. I mean if you're a christian (by birth) you get the idea of creationism from the bible, and likewise for other faiths, but it's up to your family and yourself to decide what you believe, and schools should concentrate on giving you the tools to make up your mind.

cupcrazy01
02-20-2007, 12:54 PM
So we should teach evolution, which has never been proven but not intelligent design, which is backed by the Bible--the inerrent word of God, in which nothing has even been disproven?

Either way you look at it, it's a double standard.

Ta Khent
02-20-2007, 01:32 PM
So we should teach evolution, which has never been proven but not intelligent design, which is backed by the Bible--the inerrent word of God, in which nothing has even been disproven?

Either way you look at it, it's a double standard.


One can see the evidence of evolution; however, there is NO evidence of creationism or that the bible is in fact the word of God. One can clearly argue that it's the word of man and not God.

MANGLER
03-30-2010, 02:32 AM
So there is a whole debate about this theory being taught in schools alongside evolution.
Some say its just another way of forcing religous beliefs into schools. Others think it is a plausable theory and therefore is scientific, not religious.

It isnt the same as creationism. Or is it?

It is possible to believe in Intelligent Design without believeing in God?

For me, i think its very interesting. And is the closest i come to believing in a creator.
Anyone know more about this idea?

I always thought schools should just teach by the books.

Anything beyond the standard curriculum is for a kid's parents to teach if they fell inclined to do so.

Hi-Dro
03-31-2010, 10:14 PM
I always thought schools should just teach by the books.

Anything beyond the standard curriculum is for a kid's parents to teach if they fell inclined to do so.

regular school is but not colllege

college is different mang