http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP7CmTg_alI

Never seen this before although I knew of it's existence...

Wow. I never even knew it existed. Was Ali training for anyone or was it for charity.....how long had Dokes even been pro at that point in time?

Why Dokes?

Wait...Dokes would have had to have been like 17 or 18. He was only 24 when he won the WBA strap, right?

Wait...Dokes would have had to have been like 17 or 18. He was only 24 when he won the WBA strap, right?
Dokes was 19 years old 5-0 as a pro with 3 KO's. He was Ali's sparring partner at the time and Ali was preparing for a fight I believe. Dokes was Ali's main sparring partner when Ali trained for Shavers in 1977. I believe Ali fought a 10 round exhibition with Dokes in Chicago in 1977. I'll have to double check that one.

Dokes was 19 years old 5-0 as a pro with 3 KO's. He was Ali's sparring partner at the time and Ali was preparing for a fight I believe. Dokes was Ali's main sparring partner when Ali trained for Shavers in 1977. I believe Ali fought a 10 round exhibition with Dokes in Chicago in 1977. I'll have to double check that one.


Thanks for the footage, bro....killer. I'm gonna have to get you something from the gift shop. :fing02:

tyson dont got **** on that defense on the 2:00 mark. and im talking about a prime tyson. seriously

butterfly is going to **** on himself when he see's this and then hes going to say hes seen it before:rolleyes:

tyson dont got **** on that defense on the 2:00 mark. and im talking about a prime tyson. seriously

Damn thats incredible. And thats Ali in 76 no less:banana:

butterfly is going to **** on himself when he see's this and then hes going to say hes seen it before:rolleyes:

shut up versatile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP7CmTg_alI

Never seen this before although I knew of it's existence...

This reminds me a little of the Bob foster fight.

Also, are those commercials from 1976, too? They look ancient to me, lol!

I remember seeing that on TV years ago. AND some people say Ali's defense wasn't that good.

lol!!! I got to admit that bit in the corner impressed the hell outt me, too.

Damn, I love Ali! :D



Sorry....a bit of nostalgia just came over me....felt like a kid again. :)

I remember seeing that on TV years ago. AND some people say Ali's defense wasn't that good.Henry, I read your thread where you told Monte Cox about Nat Fleischer rating Ali as the #2 defensive heavyweight of all-time and I'm glad you did.

I've exchanged e-mails in the past with Monte and while I respect him as a historian I've still questioned a few of his writings.

Monte did an all-time heavyweight ranking of essential categories and gave Ali a 7/10 in defence which was the same rating he afforded among other Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, and Joe Frazier, and less than Jim Corbett's 9/10 and Max Scheling's 8/10.

I think you would be hard pressed to find too many objective historians that would rate Jeffries as hard to hit clean as was Ali in his prime, which is why I'm at the point now of questioning alot of 'historians' opinions and choosing instead to rely on my own observations.

It's not about 'conventional' defence, it's about the art of not getting hit hard and/or often, and Ali wasn't hit much at all in his prime.

There is a sequence in the FOTC in one of the later rounds where Ali was backed into a corner by Frazier and Ali dropped his hands to his side and invited Frazier to try and hit him. With Frazier less than a foot away he tries several clean head shots and Ali makes him miss by turning his head or rolling and blocking with his shoulder. The sequence can be seen very noticeably in the documentary The Fighters.

Ali had an uncanny radar system that allowed him to accurately gauge space, time and distance. I've yet to see another heavyweight with that comparable attribute.

I just realized this video must be from 1977 as it wasn't until that year that Dokes had his 5th fight, and the announcer made reference to the cancelled US Boxing Championship.

This might be the start of Ali's training for the Evangelista fight.

At least it proves that Dokes was not the 6'3" that he is always listed as.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP7CmTg_alI

Never seen this before although I knew of it's existence...

That was great Sabboth cheers for posting it!

That little dance Ali does in the corner after slipping just about everything the quick handed Dokes threw at him was priceless.

That little dance Ali does in the corner after slipping just about everything the quick handed Dokes threw at him was priceless.

I think Larry Holmes did the same thing in the Ali fight. I don't remember what round, though.:thinking:

I think Larry Holmes did the same thing in the Ali fight. I don't remember what round, though.:thinking:

it was an 81'(i think) ali. not the same kind of punches like dokes. well i hope not

it was an 81'(i think) ali. not the same kind of punches like dokes. well i hope not

Holes fought Ali in '80, though. And I'm talking about the dance Ali did. Holmes did the same dance in the Ali fight.

Originally posted by SABBATH
Henry, I read your thread where you told Monte Cox about Nat Fleischer rating Ali as the #2 defensive heavyweight of all-time and I'm glad you did.

I've exchanged e-mails in the past with Monte and while I respect him as a historian I've still questioned a few of his writings.

Monte did an all-time heavyweight ranking of essential categories and gave Ali a 7/10 in defence which was the same rating he afforded among other Jim Jeffries, Rocky Marciano, and Joe Frazier, and less than Jim Corbett's 9/10 and Max Scheling's 8/10.

I think you would be hard pressed to find too many objective historians that would rate Jeffries as hard to hit clean as was Ali in his prime, which is why I'm at the point now of questioning alot of 'historians' opinions and choosing instead to rely on my own observations.

It's not about 'conventional' defence, it's about the art of not getting hit hard and/or often, and Ali wasn't hit much at all in his prime.

There is a sequence in the FOTC in one of the later rounds where Ali was backed into a corner by Frazier and Ali dropped his hands to his side and invited Frazier to try and hit him. With Frazier less than a foot away he tries several clean head shots and Ali makes him miss by turning his head or rolling and blocking with his shoulder. The sequence can be seen very noticeably in the documentary The Fighters.

Ali had an uncanny radar system that allowed him to accurately gauge space, time and distance. I've yet to see another heavyweight with that comparable attribute.

In the same fight, Frazier did a little ditty where he offered himself up to Ali, and Ali never laid a glove on him. It was great bantor, like two comic-book characters.

Great video.

In the same fight, Frazier did a little ditty where he offered himself up to Ali, and Ali never laid a glove on him. It was great bantor, like two comic-book characters.

Great video.True. Frazier's defence is under-appreciated in that fight.

Boxing historian Monte Cox counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in the FOTC. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight. Cox studied Tyson vs Thomas and Mike was making Pinklon miss if I remember correctly around 10 or 11.

Take it with a grain of salt as there are variables of course such as Ali was throwing more shots (more punches to slip) but on the flip side the 1971 Ali's punches were faster and more accurate than those of the 1987 Pinklon Thomas. In any event the numbers suggest that a prime Frazier and Tyson were certainly comparable in their head movement and ability to slip and duck punches.

Originally posted by SABBATH
True. Frazier's defence is under-appreciated in that fight.

Boxing historian Monte Cox counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in the FOTC. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight. Cox studied Tyson vs Thomas and Mike was making Pinklon miss if I remember correctly around 10 or 11.

Take it with a grain of salt as there are variables of course such as Ali was throwing more shots (more punches to slip) but on the flip side the 1971 Ali's punches were faster and more accurate than those of the 1987 Pinklon Thomas. In any event the numbers suggest that a prime Frazier and Tyson were certainly comparable in their head movement and ability to slip and duck punches.

Yeah, both had excellent head movement. I can only imagine how good Frazier's defense could have been were his eyesight a little better. Sometimes I wonder if all of that head bobbing wore on one's stamina as well, however, since it probably required an intense level of reactive muscle movements. Either way, it was fun to watch.

Does anybody have Roy Jones Jr. fights by chance? I lost mine in the move. :nonono: Early ones, late ones, all weight classes, his first loss...any would do. Completely unrelated, I know, but I was curious.