How would a top ten list of yours go?

Most boxing experts would say that Roberto Duran was the best.

Roberto Duran, Carlos Monzon, Eder Jofre, Julio Ceasar Chavez, Salvador Sanchez, Ricardo Lopez, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez, Alexis Arguello, Felix Trinidad, Kid Gavilan, Jose Napoles, Wilfred Benitz, Luis Rodriguez, Ruben Olivares, Carlos Zarate, Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera are among the Greatest.

How would a top ten list of yours go?


I'll give it a crack:

1. Duran

2. Monzon

3. JCC

4. Arguello

5. Napoles

6. Gomez

7. SS

8. Loche

9.Esparragoza

10.Gavilan

11. Paret

12. MAB

13. Palomino

14 Pedroza

15. Cervantes


This is a tough list

Most boxing experts would say that Roberto Duran was the best.

Roberto Duran, Carlos Monzon, Eder Jofre, Julio Ceasar Chavez, Salvador Sanchez, Ricardo Lopez, Carlos Ortiz, Wilfredo Gomez, Alexis Arguello, Felix Trinidad, Erik Morales and Marco Antonio Barrera are among the Greatest.

Duran is my #1. I have a tough time with the other nine, especially with the ordering.

Jofre never gets enough credit, but he was a great fighter.

1. Roberto Duran
2. Carlos Monzon
3. Eder Jofre
4. Julio Caesar Chavez
5. Carlos Zarate
6. Ruben Olivares
7. Alexis Arguello
8. Salvador Sanchez....he died so young.
9. Carlos Ortiz
10. Wilfred Benitz

Duran is my #1. I have a tough time with the other nine, especially with the ordering.

Jofre never gets enough credit, but he was a great fighter. It is hard to remember Jofre since he was Brazilian!!!

It is hard to remember Jofre since he was Brazilian!!!

When he was in his prime, he was rated as the best pound for pound boxer.

Duran is good but overrated, i honestly say monzon is better. Duran gets praise cuz he hung in with hagler and hearns and he beat leonard the first time. He padded his record on bums just like chavez did, except chavez had a longer run as a top 10 fighter. He was great from 84-98 i believe. Monzon is the best in my opinion.

Duran is good but overrated, i honestly say monzon is better. Duran gets praise cuz he hung in with hagler and hearns and he beat leonard the first time. He padded his record on bums just like chavez did, except chavez had a longer run as a top 10 fighter. He was great from 84-98 i believe. Monzon is the best in my opinion.

Duran gets praise because that all came after he was arguably the best fighter of the 70s, and considered to be the greatest lightweight ever. His mix of offense and defense was amazing.

Some guys go through different weight classes winning belts. some fighters stay for awhile in one class reigning. Duran did both.

Duran gets praise because that all came after he was arguably the best fighter of the 70s, and considered to be the greatest lightweight ever. His mix of offense and defense was amazing.

Some guys go through different weight classes winning belts. some fighters stay for awhile in one class reigning. Duran did both.

I agree with him being rated as the Greatest Lightweight ever. He was one mean guy, just like LaMotta.

a lot of this is splitting hairs, but heres my take....

1.) Roberto Duran (greatest lightweight and #3 all-time p4p in my opinion)

2.) Eder Jofre (unknown to many but he was said to be the total package)

3.) Carlos Monzon (an absolute beast...one of the 3 greatest middles ever)

4.) Julio Cesar Chavez (jc superstar was a force to be reckoned with)

5.) Alexis Arguello (perfect puncher...beat the best of his day...3 div champ)

6.) Ricardo Lopez (maybe the best littleman of all-time...undefeated total package)

7.) Salvador Sanchez (died too young...but was an exceptional fighter)

8.) Erik Morales (one of the greatest of our era...one of my favorites...i need more time to evaluate his greatness)

9.) Wilfredo Gomez (best 122 pounder...devastating puncher)

10.) Carlos Ortiz (great great lightweight...wins over Laguna, Elorde, Ramos)

a lot of this is splitting hairs, but heres my take....

1.) Roberto Duran (greatest lightweight and #3 all-time p4p in my opinion)

2.) Eder Jofre (unknown to many but he was said to be the total package)

3.) Carlos Monzon (an absolute beast...one of the 3 greatest middles ever)

4.) Julio Cesar Chavez (jc superstar was a force to be reckoned with)

5.) Alexis Arguello (perfect puncher...beat the best of his day...3 div champ)

6.) Ricardo Lopez (maybe the best littleman of all-time...undefeated total package)

7.) Salvador Sanchez (died too young...but was an exceptional fighter)

8.) Erik Morales (one of the greatest of our era...one of my favorites...i need more time to evaluate his greatness)

9.) Wilfredo Gomez (best 122 pounder...devastating puncher)

10.) Carlos Ortiz (great great lightweight...wins over Laguna, Elorde, Ramos)


Dude where is Nico Loche.....taking about Edere like he was the missing link and yet you totally overview the greatest tech fighter in Nico Loche....

Duran is good but overrated, i honestly say monzon is better. Duran gets praise cuz he hung in with hagler and hearns and he beat leonard the first time. He padded his record on bums just like chavez did, except chavez had a longer run as a top 10 fighter. He was great from 84-98 i believe. Monzon is the best in my opinion.

Many forget that Duran came from the LW division, cleaning the divison over....and when he came to the USA and fought SRL he was on the tail end of his prime....he was 29 almost 30 years old, after cleaning the LW for 7 years....7 years....dude..is taht overated then you have a problem...all boxers are overated then

Many forget that Duran came from the LW division, cleaning the divison over....and when he came to the USA and fought SRL he was on the tail end of his prime....he was 29 almost 30 years old, after cleaning the LW for 7 years....7 years....dude..is taht overated then you have a problem...all boxers are overated then

Duran was fighting in the USA for awhile before Leonard in Canada and New Orleans.

Duran was fighting in the USA for awhile before Leonard in Canada and New Orleans.

Agreed, but he was not know but only to the heavy boxing fans.....he fought maybe 10 times before in the USA not counting PR....

Duran is over-rated and over-hyped. he got LAID out ! out cold ! :owned:

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Ricardo Lopez

go ahead and fill in the rest

Duran is over-rated and over-hyped. he got LAID out ! out cold ! :owned:

1. Julio Cesar Chavez
2. Salvador Sanchez
3. Ricardo Lopez

go ahead and fill in the rest


Please dude...you are embarrasing yourself....not that all 3 don;t belong, but the order you have them in...obvioulsy you never saw Duran at this prime at 135...he would ahve KO JCC to oblivion, JCC had the perfect style fro Duran...

you're ****en drunk.......or on drugs

LAID OUT ! in 2 !!!!!

its vice versa, Duran had the perfect style Chavez

Please dude...you are embarrasing yourself....not that all 3 don;t belong, but the order you have them in...obvioulsy you never saw Duran at this prime at 135...he would ahve KO JCC to oblivion, JCC had the perfect style fro Duran...

you're ****en drunk.......or on drugs

LAID OUT ! in 2 !!!!!

its vice versa, Duran had the perfect style Chavez

Ain;t no point in trying to teach you guys boxing history....Jesus...you are thick dude....Watch Duran at this prime, let say Kobayashi fight and then we talk...or maybe the Duran v. De Jesus II, how a master boxer he was....the truth is simple, Duran would beat JCC bad...

lost to Camacho twice !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

LAID out by Hearns in 2 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

truth is Julio Cesar Chavez would anihilate Duran.

http://www.antekprizering.com/hearnsduranstublesspic.jpeg

Ain;t no point in trying to teach you guys boxing history....Jesus...you are thick dude....Watch Duran at this prime, let say Kobayashi fight and then we talk...or maybe the Duran v. De Jesus II, how a master boxer he was....the truth is simple, Duran would beat JCC bad...

lost to Camacho twice !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

LAID out by Hearns in 2 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

truth is Julio Cesar Chavez would anihilate Duran.

http://www.antekprizering.com/hearnsduranstublesspic.jpeg

Dude that was at the end of his carrer....I said put him with JCC at this prime as a LW said around the time he fought Kobayachi and JCC on his prime and JCC has no chance....Duran was twice the boxer that JCC ever was, and hit as hard if not harder....

Kobayashi ????

like in the Hot Dog eating champ ?

lost to Camacho twice !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

LAID out by Hearns in 2 !?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Dude that was at the end of his carrer....I said put him with JCC at this prime as a LW said around the time he fought Kobayachi and JCC on his prime and JCC has no chance....Duran was twice the boxer that JCC ever was, and hit as hard if not harder....

Please dude...you are embarrasing yourself....not that all 3 don;t belong, but the order you have them in...obvioulsy you never saw Duran at this prime at 135...he would ahve KO JCC to oblivion, JCC had the perfect style fro Duran...

And pernell had the perfect style to embarass duran.

And pernell had the perfect style to embarass duran.

And many others...but the problem with Sweet Pea was the cocaine..and BTW he was not Latino....a little problem to amke this list...

And many others...but the problem with Sweet Pea was the cocaine..and BTW he was not Latino....a little problem to amke this list...

I'm just saying that duran was very beatable.

Never a shortage of idiots on this board !

Did you clowns ever hear of a thing called a "prime" ? Look it up, ****heads, before denigrating a guy (Duran) for losing when WELL past it.

YOU are a ****ing clown !

Roberto Duran was NOT past his prime when got laid out by Tommy Hearns.

Never a shortage of idiots on this board !

Did you clowns ever hear of a thing called a "prime" ? Look it up, ****heads, before denigrating a guy (Duran) for losing when WELL past it.

YOU are a ****ing clown !

Roberto Duran was NOT past his prime when got laid out by Tommy Hearns.

Dude the cat was 34 when he fought Hearns fool...yes PAST HIS PRIME......PAST IT!!!

Dude where is Nico Loche.....taking about Edere like he was the missing link and yet you totally overview the greatest tech fighter in Nico Loche....


Duderino...I am not nearly as familiar with Nicolino Locche's work as I am with Eder Jofre's work. That's why I rate him considerably lower in favor of the rest of these fighters. I have seen some limited footage of Locche and I understand that his defensive ability was top notch and he was a real technitian. Maybe it's his competition (outside of his great win over Antonio Cervantes and his battles with Ortiz) that I question.

It's much more reasonable (in my opinion) to rate fighters that you have a frame of reference with. It's no disrespect to the fighter, rather just a lack of knowledge as to that fighters history.

how old is Bernard ? so he's been past his prime for over 10 years ?

Duran was NOT past his prime when he got LAID out.

Dude the cat was 34 when he fought Hearns fool...yes PAST HIS PRIME......PAST IT!!!

What's the excuse for duran losing to benitez, i would love to hear it. He was only 31 mind you and many of his fights on his record were padded with bums.

What's the excuse for duran losing to benitez, i would love to hear it. He was only 31 mind you and many of his fights on his record were padded with bums.

Benitez was a hall of fame, skilled, master technitian himself. Seriously, you are reaching here...

That's like saying, "what's Ali's excuse for losing to Joe Frazier?" People lose you know...ESPECIALLY when they are 14 years into their careers, have fought 76 fights, and are 17 pounds north of their best weight class.

Camacho twice ?

oh wait.....he was past his prime........so was fatso (Camacho)


Benitez was a hall of fame, skilled, master technitian himself. Seriously, you are reaching here...

That's like saying, "what's Ali's excuse for losing to Joe Frazier?" People lose you know...ESPECIALLY when they are 14 years into their careers, have fought 76 fights, and are 17 pounds north of their best weight class.

Benitez was a hall of fame, skilled, master technitian himself. Seriously, you are reaching here...

That's like saying, "what's Ali's excuse for losing to Joe Frazier?" People lose you know...ESPECIALLY when they are 14 years into their careers, have fought 76 fights, and are 17 pounds north of their best weight class.

well duran's pro career from 68-71 is similar to other fighters having an amatuer career during that time frame. He boxed at a young age cuz he didnt do much in the amatuer ranks.

well duran's pro career from 68-71 is similar to other fighters having an amatuer career during that time frame. He boxed at a young age cuz he didnt do much in the amatuer ranks.

If Duran was so bad, explain how come Hagler, who you say was the Greatest Middleweight ever, couldn't put him away. If fact, Hagler only won by 1 point on two of the score cards Judge: Guy Jutras 144-142 | Judge: Yusaku Yoshida 146-145 | Judge: Ove Ovesen 144-143 ~.

So if Duran at the age of 32, was that bad, what was Hagler?

If Duran was so bad, explain how come Hagler, who you say was the Greatest Middleweight ever, couldn't put him away. If fact, Hagler only won by 1 point on two of the score cards Judge: Guy Jutras 144-142 | Judge: Yusaku Yoshida 146-145 | Judge: Ove Ovesen 144-143 ~.

So if Duran at the age of 32, was that bad, what was Hagler?

greb lost to many ****ty fighters, henry armstrong lost to many ****ty fighters, try again. Hagler went on to win anyways. Duran is not bad at all, i kinda like him actually. However, he isnt invincible like the way people say he is. Julio cesar chavez had a legit chance of owning him.

nobody is saying he is bad.

but he is over-rated, over-hyped. and no doubt, no arguing, he got LAID OUT !

Julio Cesar Chavez was a much much better fighter.

If Duran was so bad, explain how come Hagler, who you say was the Greatest Middleweight ever, couldn't put him away. If fact, Hagler only won by 1 point on two of the score cards Judge: Guy Jutras 144-142 | Judge: Yusaku Yoshida 146-145 | Judge: Ove Ovesen 144-143 ~.

So if Duran at the age of 32, was that bad, what was Hagler?

Camacho twice ?

oh wait.....he was past his prime........so was fatso (Camacho)

:pat: You are not seriously citing the losses of a 40-something year old Duran as you reasoning here. Tell me you're not.

how old is Bernard ?

:pat: You are not seriously citing a 40 year old Duran as you reasoning here. Tell me you're not.

how old is Bernard ?

Apples and oranges.

Seeing as how Chavez looked so good againt De La Hoya and Kostya Tszyu I suppose we shoud count those too.

Apples and oranges.

so who is the apple and who is the orange ?

boils down to Roberto Duran is over-rated and over-hyped. the guy is a hall of famer but cannot carry Salvador Sanchez's or JCC's jockstrap

Seeing as how Chavez looked so good againt De La Hoya and Kostya Tszyu I suppose we shoud count those too.

went out on his feet, even past his prime

unlike someone who got LAID out IN his prime

I could just as easily argue that Duran lost more and was laid out because he wasn't protected for the second half of his career like Chavez.

After Julio nearly lost to Taylor and did lose to Whitaker Don King never put him in with a dangerous opponent again until De La Hoya. Maybe if Duran had had Don King as a promoter he would have a "better record" beating up on the Lonnie Smiths of the world.


But no, Duran had to go and fight the best into his 40's while Chavez was on a magical mystery tour against retreads Frankie Randall and Ivan Robinson.

greb lost to many ****ty fighters, henry armstrong lost to many ****ty fighters, try again. Hagler went on to win anyways. Duran is not bad at all, i kinda like him actually. However, he isnt invincible like the way people say he is. Julio cesar chavez had a legit chance of owning him.

I rest my case, when you say things like this. Again, when you know a little bit about the sport of boxing, PLEASE let me know and we can talk like adults.

Most boxing experts have Armstrong and Greb in their all-time pound for pound list. If fact here's what Kellerman and Atlas have:

Max Kellerman:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Ezzard Charles
10a. Jimmy Wilde
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Tony Atlas:<o></o>
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Mickey Walker
8. Roberto Duran
9. Gene Tunney
10. Carlos Monzon
10a. Joe Louis

My top 5 pound for pound are:

Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis, in no special order.
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[QUOTE=K-DOGG;2014814]I could just as easily argue that Duran lost more and was laid out because he wasn't protected for the second half of his career like Chavez.



no, chavez was simply smarter. He wasnt dumb enough to fight at 160 and 167 when he still had years left in him like duran did. Duran should have stayed at 147 for the max, he knew he didnt belong in there.

no, chavez was simply smarter. He wasnt dumb enough to fight at 160 and 167 when he still had years left in him like duran did. Duran should have stayed at 147 for the max, he knew he didnt belong in there.

:thinking: Sooo, you're saying Chavez's juevos weren't as big as Durans.

:rolleyes:

I rest my case, when you say things like this. Again, when you know a little bit about the sport of boxing, PLEASE let me know and we can talk like adults.

Most boxing experts have Armstrong and Greb in their all-time pound for pound list. If fact here's what Kellerman and Atlas have:

Max Kellerman:
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Harry Greb
5. Sam Langford
6. Pernell Whitaker
7. Roberto Duran
8. Willie Pep
9. Benny Leonard
10. Ezzard Charles
10a. Jimmy Wilde
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]--><o></o>
Tony Atlas:<o></o>
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Henry Armstrong
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Benny Leonard
5. Sam Langford
6. Harry Greb
7. Mickey Walker
8. Roberto Duran
9. Gene Tunney
10. Carlos Monzon
10a. Joe Louis

My top 5 pound for pound are:

Sugar Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Willie Pep, Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis, in no special order.
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again that is based on accomplishements and monzon dodged hagler, what does that tell you. He choose to defend his belt against lesser opponents when he knew hagler was supposed to get the title shot.

Duderino...I am not nearly as familiar with Nicolino Locche's work as I am with Eder Jofre's work. That's why I rate him considerably lower in favor of the rest of these fighters. I have seen some limited footage of Locche and I understand that his defensive ability was top notch and he was a real technitian. Maybe it's his competition (outside of his great win over Antonio Cervantes and his battles with Ortiz) that I question.

It's much more reasonable (in my opinion) to rate fighters that you have a frame of reference with. It's no disrespect to the fighter, rather just a lack of knowledge as to that fighters history.

Nothing wrong with Eder...he just disapearead as fast aas he came to the scene...Nico was a master of defence...very underated IMO, as good as anyone is history including Wil O' Whisp....and the Radar.... masterfulll...if you have a chance to see him fights ...do!! But I respect what you are saying, plus the fact that you have a reason it is cool half the cats here just write a one liner and that;s the xtent of their knowledge.....

:thinking: Sooo, you're saying Chavez's juevos weren't as big as Durans.

:rolleyes:

I'm saying chavez had a longer time frame as an awesome boxer, it lasted 12 full years. He stopped fighting D level streetbums after he won in 84. Duran was still fighting NOOBS during his reign in the 70's.

Sooo, you're saying Chavez's juevos weren't as big as Durans.

That was funny...and yes he might just be saying that but Duran was stright to the best type of boxer, he had balls and eventhough it took me a while to forgive him for No Mas, I do have strong understanding the why it happened and the history before the fight just to make weight....

Duran on his prime v. JCC at his prime, was a no contest Duran by KO and a brutal at that, JCC cut easily and Duran would have fillet him appart with fast jab, heavy quick combos that JCC WOULD NOT EVEN DREAM...

Duran seldom get credit for his boxing ability a master boxer he had it all....

again that is based on accomplishements and monzon dodged hagler, what does that tell you. He choose to defend his belt against lesser opponents when he knew hagler was supposed to get the title shot.

Hagler wasn't the #1 contender at that time. Just for the record, I have Hagler better then Monzon myself.

Just for the record, Hagler fought 17 top 10 contenders in his career and Monzon fought 15.

again that is based on accomplishements and monzon dodged hagler, what does that tell you. He choose to defend his belt against lesser opponents when he knew hagler was supposed to get the title shot.

Rodrigo Valdez was more regarded than Marvin Hagler at the time.

If anything, Carlos Monzon ducked Valdez to fight lesser guys, since he lost a belt because of it. Then he fought Valdez when they stripped Monzon of the WBC belt.

estas mas pedo que la chingada

JCC by devastating KO, within 3

That was funny...and yes he might just be saying that but Duran was stright to the best type of boxer, he had balls and eventhough it took me a while to forgive him for No Mas, I do have strong understanding the why it happened and the history before the fight just to make weight....

Duran on his prime v. JCC at his prime, was a no contest Duran by KO and a brutal at that, JCC cut easily and Duran would have fillet him appart with fast jab, heavy quick combos that JCC WOULD NOT EVEN DREAM...

Duran seldom get credit for his boxing ability a master boxer he had it all....

Hagler wasn't the #1 contender at that time. Just for the record, I have Hagler better then Monzon myself.

Just for the record, Hagler fought 17 top 10 contenders in his career and Monzon fought 15.

he was deserving of a shot though, i say around 77 he should have got it.

he was deserving of a shot though, i say around 77 he should have got it.

But that doesn't mean Monzon ducked him by retiring.

He could've just wanted to retire from the sport and lead a life of flinging women from balconies.

When a fighter retires on top, on the rare occassions, there's always some contenders out there he didn't fight.

he was deserving of a shot though, i say around 77 he should have got it.

If Monzon stayed around, he would have fought Hagler. Monzon retired like Marciano did, at the top of their game.

again that is based on accomplishements and monzon dodged hagler, what does that tell you. He choose to defend his belt against lesser opponents when he knew hagler was supposed to get the title shot.Hagler and Monzon cross path at the very tail end of Maonzon carrer, and BTW, Rodrigo Valdez was supposed to be the big bad monster that dethrone the great Monzon and well as we all know....Monzon totally outclass the big bad monster......twice......in the 2nd fight go up from a nasty KD to win by UD in 15 rounds....

If Monzon stayed around, he would have fought Hagler. Monzon retired like Marciano did, at the top of their game.

if marciano could have added johanssen and patterson to his resume, he would have been top 3-5 in my eyes.

i own the latin legends dvd and in that chavez says without hesitation the duran was the best latino fighter of alltime, duran was years past his prime when he fought hearns just like leanord was years past his prime when he fought terry norris, chavez was the same age duran was when e was getting domianted by delahoya

i own the latin legends dvd and in that chavez says without hesitation the duran was the best latino fighter of alltime, duran was years past his prime when he fought hearns just like leanord was years past his prime when he fought terry norris, chavez was the same age duran was when e was getting domianted by delahoya

All Latino fighers will tell you that Duran was it......that interview was it before the Taylor fight, and he is JCC Jr. on is lap?

if marciano could have added johanssen and patterson to his resume, he would have been top 3-5 in my eyes.

I would add Liston to that group.

I would add Liston to that group.

liston vs rocky would have been great, two great sluggers goin at it. It's sad though that liston is kind of an underachiever like riddick bowe. Both of them were ****in awesome.

liston vs rocky would have been great, two great sluggers goin at it. It's sad though that liston is kind of an underachiever like riddick bowe.

I have the boxing gloves that Sonny Liston fought his last bout with. It was against my friend Chuck Wepner

I think Liston would've outboxed Marciano, win decision, or maybe force a late stoppage.

Not only was Liston powerful and physically strong, but he had good boxing skills, a long reach, and a terrific jab.

Was liston's 2nd fight against ali a worked match cuz i dont think ali could have ko'd him.

Was liston's 2nd fight against ali a worked match cuz i dont think ali could have ko'd him.

When Liston was asked two years later about what happened, Liston stated that he was caught by a punch while he was off balance. The first thing he looked for was a count and the referee, Jersey Joe Walcott, did not give him one. He then added that people said he sat down. He closed by saying that he was on his feet when the referee stepped in. Look at the movies.

I have the boxing gloves that Sonny Liston fought his last bout with. It was against my friend Chuck Wepner

LOL!!! You lucky sonuva*****!!

Too Cool. :biggthump



I bet you hear some great stories, too.

I have the boxing gloves that Sonny Liston fought his last bout with. It was against my friend Chuck Wepner

I have Jenna Jamesons' last bikini, before she got gang-banged

I have the boxing gloves that Sonny Liston fought his last bout with. It was against my friend Chuck Wepner

You are from Lodi do you know any of the Misfits?

again that is based on accomplishements and monzon dodged hagler, what does that tell you. He choose to defend his belt against lesser opponents when he knew hagler was supposed to get the title shot.

Hagler didn't become the #1 ranked contender until months AFTER Monzon had already retired, and he recieved that lofty position largely on the strength of his stoppage win against the highly ranked Mike Colbert in Nov of 1977, so I'm having trouble figuring out this "supposed to get the title shot" comment of yours.

In fact, Hagler wasn't even a ranked middleweight contender in the year previous, based on the Ring's annual rankings for the end of 1976, and it's also a well known fact that Monzon had planned his retirement well in advance of his final meeting with Valdez, which took place in the summer of 1977...

Quite the closed window there, and no, at the time I certainly wouldn't classify Rodrigo Valdez as a "lesser opponent" than Hagler, as Valdez was a very good, borderline great middleweight fighter...strong & tough as hell, great power combinations, reasonably skilled boxing skills behind his high guard, could fight on both the front foot and back (as shown versus Briscoe), etc., etc. Hindsight may tell us something different, but at the time the very dangerous Rodrigo Valdez was thought of as the second best fighter in the middleweight division behind Monzon, and certainly held a much higher position than did Hagler at the time.

Hagler didn't become the #1 ranked contender until months AFTER Monzon had already retired, and he recieved that lofty position largely on the strength of his stoppage win against the highly ranked Mike Colbert in Nov of 1977, so I'm having trouble figuring out this "supposed to get the title shot" comment of yours.

In fact, Hagler wasn't even a ranked middleweight contender in the year previous, based on the Ring's annual rankings for the end of 1976, and it's also a well known fact that Monzon had planned his retirement well in advance of his final meeting with Valdez, which took place in the summer of 1977...

Quite the closed window there, and no, at the time I certainly wouldn't classify Rodrigo Valdez as a "lesser opponent" than Hagler, as Valdez was a very good, borderline great middleweight fighter...strong & tough as hell, great power combinations, reasonably skilled boxing skills behind his high guard, could fight on both the front foot and back (as shown versus Briscoe), etc., etc. Hindsight may tell us something different, but at the time the very dangerous Rodrigo Valdez was thought of as the second best fighter in the middleweight division behind Monzon, and certainly held a much higher position than did Hagler at the time.

Even if valdez is the #1 contender, hagler was still supposed to get a shot at the belt around 77-78, not the end of 79. Let me remind u that there were two champs at that time and hagler's draw against antuofermo was a bull**** decision.

Even if valdez is the #1 contender, hagler was still supposed to get a shot at the eblt around 77-78, not the end of 79. Let me remind u that there were two champs at that time and hagler's draw against antuofermo was a bull**** decision.

I can agree with you in stating that Hagler could've or should've gotten his shot a little bit earlier, but that's only from 1978 onwards (not in 1977, when Hagler only just recieved the #1 position with a month to go in the year), as that's the only time frame that he'd be most eligible as the #1 contender...Not against Monzon

In Monzon's days of reigning at the top of the division, Hagler was never the #1 contender to Carlos' title, nor was he even a ranked contender for the VAST majority of it.

And no, there was only one world title around in the middleweight division at the time, as the WBC/WBA titles were unified during the first meeting between Monzon & Valdez in 1976, and stayed that way until the very end of Hagler's reign as champion.