Who had the quicker hands?

Close, but I'd give the edge to Joe.


Who had the fastest hands for a HW ever? Only one answer there, folks - Floyd Patterson.

ahahha. i hope this is a joke. joe had quick hands but he couldnt put together combos as quickly as tyson did

ahahha. i hope this is a joke. joe had quick hands but he couldnt put together combos as quickly as tyson did

I don't see how that is such a joke. Louis had really fast hands.

Handspeed, quickness. Between these two fighters, its Mike Tyson imo. He had quick sharp jabs, could pull off 5 punches in 2 seconds. You should see him when he was a very young teenager shadowboxing. The quickness is amazing, especially for his weight. Joe Louis had the timing, the best accurazy i've ever seen as a puncher. He wasn't as wild or explosive as Tyson. However, Tyson's footage was a lot better than Louis'. Gotta say that though.

Tyson by far from what I have seen.

I'd have to say Tyson, I was never too much impressed with Louis' hand or foot speed. He was just a stalker type, working deliberately whereas Tyson was adept at letting punches fly with more fluidity.

I will say Louis' jab was probably faster than Tyson's jab.

Louis' power combinations were shorter and got there quicker from what I see.

Definitely Mike Tyson
Fastest Heavyweight ever:Muhammad Ali.

They both have equal hand speed.I think Louis used his speed better than Tyson used his. In the fights I've seen his accuracy was crazy. Tyson moved quicker than Louis did in the ring but they both threw fast combos. Louis threw his when the time was right, Tyson just rushed everyone and got the job done quick. Tricky question, but I'd have them even.

bump..........

Rooney had an interesting analysis of Tyson's handspeed. He said that he had never seen a fighter who could punch as fast as Mike could in terms of thought process/brain signals to muscle action. Rooney would shout a series of punches and Tyson would throw them. Not only were they correct, but lightning fast. Cus once said of Mike that he felt Tyson's hands moved quicker than Patterson's, which was surprising given Mike's heavier build. Tyson also moved around the ring quicker than Louis, making his punches more explosive and difficult to predict.

Louis was definitely more accurate, however.

didnt louis have smaller gloves back then?as in size? but ne way,just watch those sparring videos of tyson and u can see the clear winner there.

Well, the lighter gloves in terms of speed is close to irrelevant on the wholeshot. In Tyson's day they were built with better/more even weight distribution, so one could make that argument too.

Still, Tyson was faster.

From what i've seen,I'd go with Tyson on this one.His handspeed was astonishing!

Is this like a trick question?
I doubt that anybody with some decent boxing knowledge would know that Tyson has much faster hands...

Is this like a trick question?
I doubt that anybody with some decent boxing knowledge would know that Tyson has much faster hands...

It wasn't that much faster. Louis had some brilliant handspeed, too.

It wasn't that much faster. Louis had some brilliant handspeed, too.

Louis was less predictable and had some sneaky punches, that's why it seemed so fast, Tyson was a little more predictable but clearly faster...

Louis was less predictable and had some sneaky punches, that's why it seemed so fast, Tyson was a little more predictable but clearly faster...

So are you tring to say Louis' handspeed was slow?

So are you tring to say Louis' handspeed was slow?

Obviously I'm saying it was slower than Tyson's, I'm just comparing the two...
Louis and Tyson both had good handspeed but Tyson's was clearly better...

Obviously I'm saying it was slower than Tyson's, I'm just comparing the two...
Louis and Tyson both had good handspeed but Tyson's was clearly better...

Well, I know that. It just seemd as you were dismissing Louis' handspeed simply as a product of "unpredictability", like if it was more predictable then it would be slow and he actually had no real natural speed of the arms.

Tyson was more heavily built which makes his speed even more amazing because he had so much power. Louis might have had a slight edge in pure speed but this does not translate into effectiveness compared to Tyson.

Definitely Mike Tyson
Fastest Heavyweight ever:Muhammad Ali.
hmm tyson had fluid fast destructive combos but louis jab was prob faster.
Ali had the fastest foot speed ever but floyd pattersons hand speed was amazing for a heavyweight an proberbly edges over ali's.

I'm still going to go with Ali, but I wouldn't deny Patterson speed.

Pretty much Iron Mike by a landslide...

His speed was phenomenal for a heavyweight.

for the footage i would say Tyson

it's a real hard choice but i went for tyson on this one.

Pretty much Iron Mike by a landslide...

His speed was phenomenal for a heavyweight.yea true. i've seen mad videos of tyson when he was a youngin, the man had them big fat biceps and the quickness of a middleweight to be honest ,i've never seen such thing from any boxer these days.

Louis' up close uppercut hook combos were rapid but id say Mike the guy was a whirlwind!

OVERALL HANDSPEED maybe tyson.

i think ali does the fastest combos even tho he hasnt got half the power behind them.

footwork? ali moves the FEET faster, but tyson moves his body faster, wich translates into faster closing in and fast + powerful hooks too.

jabs i stick with joe louis.

i havent seen floyd patterson do any display of AMAZING handspeed. can anybody point me to a video where one would be like "WOW!!!11"??

but even then it's hard to judge, you can't just say "go look at videos of teen tyson shadowboxing" and judge based on that. you never seen any quality videos of teen joe louis shadowboxing have you?

Tyson's handspeed was of the more explosive variety and from different angles. Joe Louis' handspeed was awesome as well but what made Louis so deadly was the short compact punches. His punches didn't have to travel very far to do damage.

Both of 'em are unique to the heavyweight division tho'. Handspeed with bone crushing power meant big trouble for the opposition.

But I give the slight edge to Mike Tyson in the handspeed department.

LOL.

Tyson is so much quicker than Louis, In fact Louis is in my slow book.

i havent seen floyd patterson do any display of AMAZING handspeed. can anybody point me to a video where one would be like "WOW!!!11"??

I agree, quite a few of my boxing history books claim he was the fastest ever, but I've yet to see it...

LOL.

Tyson is so much quicker than Louis, In fact Louis is in my slow book.

Try watching some of Louis' fights when he was younger. Not as big a difference as you claim.

Try watching some of Louis' fights when he was younger. Not as big a difference as you claim.

I think the deal with Joe was that he was such a compact puncher, and didnt really need the leverage most fighters do to deliver a devestating punch, that people fail to notice his marvelous hand speed.

It's difficult to judge and I couldn't really vote for on or the other unless I suppose I'll just go for equal.

Tyson threw quicker combos no doubt, but Louis I think could just flick out the jab and an overhand right quicker than Tyson.

I agree, quite a few of my boxing history books claim he was the fastest ever, but I've yet to see it...


<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/k9pOAk6pulo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/k9pOAk6pulo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

that should show you sumthing...floyd was VERY fast esp. with that leaping kangaroo punch of his. Hes a notch above tyson when it comes to handspeed. EVERYBODY whos into classic boxing should look at the guys profile on youtube, hes got sum gems in there.

Im going to go with Tyson, he hit with amazing speed. 5 or 6 punch combos which are rare for heavyweights. Cus also said he hit quicker than Floyd Patterson!

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/jU2YPXghFkU&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/jU2YPXghFkU&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>


11 punches in 4 seconds??? Ali has the fastest hands, nuff said.

Close, but I'd give the edge to Joe.


Who had the fastest hands for a HW ever? Only one answer there, folks - Floyd Patterson.
Joe Louis was fast but he wasn't Tyson fast. I have never seen Louis lay down a 5 punch combination within seconds, he never went to the body then to the head with speed. He took his time picked his punches and released it is why he was so accurate of a puncher. Mike is the same thing, accurate with his punches because he chooses them and releases, the only difference is Mike has so much power in both arms he gets his punches off allot faster than Louis.

Tell me since when do you see a right hand body shot followed by and upper cut leading with a left hook? That combination alone is unseen in the heavyweights and to have one pull it off with unseen speed is just out of the question from the fastest hands in the heavyweight history! Mike Tyson all the way on this question buddy!

It's difficult to judge and I couldn't really vote for on or the other unless I suppose I'll just go for equal.

Tyson threw quicker combos no doubt, but Louis I think could just flick out the jab and an overhand right quicker than Tyson.
Just watch the Berbick fight to see how fast his hands were! If your throwing fast combinations then that means you have fast hands. If you say Tyson is throwing quicker combos that means he has faster hands. A jab will only do so much, given that Tyson was the height of Louis with his reach there would be no talk of Louis jab. Tyson is by far the fastest hands in the history of heavyweight boxing get over it!

I don't care how you put it, a jab isn't worth **** if you don't have the means to back it with something else. Tyson laid down the fastest combinations I have ever witnessed with my own two eyes. The Berbick fight was incredible, he was relentless and accurate with his blazing combinations. Berbick was completely :owned: he had no answer for what just happened to him and was in dis belief after the fight, he didn't think Tyson hit that hard and never realized how fast he was, that was until he got hit! Tyson was mentally charged then and nothing was going to stand in his way, he didn't get all those early knockouts for being slow. His hands were as fast as a welterweights and his power was that of an atomic bomb. Anyone who can lay down combinations as fast as Tyson did in the heavyweight division has to be the top dog in who had the fastest hands!


Unbelievable to how many people can't see the obvious. How fast does it really take Joe Louis to hit the body then come up to the head? In all reality Tyson has the fastest hands in the history of boxing in terms of fastest with affect! :boxing:

Unbelievable to how many people can't see the obvious. How fast does it really take Joe Louis to hit the body then come up to the head? In all reality Tyson has the fastest hands in the history of boxing in terms of fastest with affect! :boxing:

I beg to differ. Ever hear of a cat named Sugar Ray Robinson? Hand speed to spare and dynamite in either fist.

afar as the speed of single punches go both were very fast and very close joe lous was a far more economical fighter. he would pick his punches more carefully and always knew where the openings were.

tyson IMHO has some of the fastest combos of any heavies ever. ali and patterson were faster but neither had the power he had. tyson was not an intelligent fighter but in his prime his speed technical skills and accuracy made him incredibly dangerous.

Rooney had an interesting analysis of Tyson's handspeed. He said that he had never seen a fighter who could punch as fast as Mike could in terms of thought process/brain signals to muscle action. Rooney would shout a series of punches and Tyson would throw them. Not only were they correct, but lightning fast. Cus once said of Mike that he felt Tyson's hands moved quicker than Patterson's, which was surprising given Mike's heavier build. Tyson also moved around the ring quicker than Louis, making his punches more explosive and difficult to predict.

Louis was definitely more accurate, however.
I agree with everything you said except for Louis being a more accurate puncher? How could you figure that if Louis wasn't throwing combinations like Tyson? His punch to the body followed by one to the head was nothing spectacular next to a combination of Tyson. Against Schmeling in their second fight Louis hit him with a body shot than expired about a second and a half before releasing onto his head, he did this over and over and it was barely the beginning of the fight? Tyson always exploded in his youth never gave it a second though, had all his combination locked down to perfection and knew when to release them because of his split second timing for countering. I don't even think Louis would have been able to pull of a right hand body shot followed by a right hand uppercut to a left hook within a second! The reason you didn't see Louis performing a combination like that is because he wasn't built for that type of movement and speed to pull it off with success. You need speed power and great timing to pull that combination of and til this day and any day before in time no one did it better than Mike Tyson. Unbelievable how fast he was, against Berbick he flushed him away with punches coming from every where with accuracy. He didn't knock his opponents down or out because of his power alone, it was his speed and accuracy that finished them off. That combination against Pinklon Thomas.........just brilliant, watch it again and tell me how fast that was, his uppercuts to hooks one after another in blazing speeds.

Tyson is faster than Louis and that is a fact!

afar as the speed of single punches go both were very fast and very close joe lous was a far more economical fighter. he would pick his punches more carefully and always knew where the openings were.

tyson IMHO has some of the fastest combos of any heavies ever. ali and patterson were faster but neither had the power he had. tyson was not an intelligent fighter but in his prime his speed technical skills and accuracy made him incredibly dangerous.
How can Patterson be faster than Tyson if their own trainer said otherwise? That alone makes your opinion go down the ****ter!

I beg to differ. Ever hear of a cat named Sugar Ray Robinson? Hand speed to spare and dynamite in either fist.
What? Are you serious pal, Robinson is a fast boxer there is no doubting that but if you would have read correctly I said with affect!!!! READ PAL READ!!!

Tyson had perfect speed because he got the job done. He was getting it done fast and early, if it wasn't for his blazing hand speed in both hands plus raw power he wouldn't have gotten all those first round knockouts and one punch your done knockouts. His left hook alone will hook you faster than you can blink your eyes. Robinson isn't even a heavyweight pal, he may be fast but his speed wasn't blinding enough to knock most of his opponents bloodless!

What? Are you serious pal, Robinson is a fast boxer there is no doubting that but if you would have read correctly I said with affect!!!! READ PAL READ!!!

Tyson had perfect speed because he got the job done. He was getting it done fast and early, if it wasn't for his blazing hand speed in both hands plus raw power he wouldn't have gotten all those first round knockouts and one punch your done knockouts. His left hook alone will hook you faster than you can blink your eyes. Robinson isn't even a heavyweight pal, he may be fast but his speed wasn't blinding enough to knock most of his opponents bloodless!

Well pal, I did read and I stand by my statement. So what Ray wasn't a heavyweight - you said the 'fastest hands in the history of boxing in terms of fastest with affect'.

Sugar Ray not only had lightning fast hands, but he had heavy hands as well. Knock a cat out with both fists, and could do it quickly.

Well pal, I did read and I stand by my statement. So what Ray wasn't a heavyweight - you said the 'fastest hands in the history of boxing in terms of fastest with affect'.

Sugar Ray not only had lightning fast hands, but he had heavy hands as well. Knock a cat out with both fists, and could do it quickly.
"knock a cat out with both fists", I seriously don't understand how your brain works pal! Tyson would knock a cat out with one punch, and the cat wouldn't see it coming from right in front of it's face!

That is why I am specific to what I say, I put it in detail for you and you still obtain your arrogance over defeat!

Well pal, I did read and I stand by my statement. So what Ray wasn't a heavyweight - you said the 'fastest hands in the history of boxing in terms of fastest with affect'.

Sugar Ray not only had lightning fast hands, but he had heavy hands as well. Knock a cat out with both fists, and could do it quickly.
You sure are a Floyd Patterson fan, why isn't he on your all time light heavyweight list?

You sure are a Floyd Patterson fan, why isn't he on your all time light heavyweight list?

Why would i put Floyd Patterson in a light heavyweight list?

Why would i put Floyd Patterson in a light heavyweight list?
Because that is what he started out as! He was a great light heavyweight who decided to work on his heavyweight game. Hell he was a better heavyweight than Charles ever could be, even got into the ring with the greats while they were still great, does that make sense to you pal?!

Because that is what he started out as! He was a great light heavyweight who decided to work on his heavyweight game. Hell he was a better heavyweight than Charles ever could be, even got into the ring with the greats while they were still great, does that make sense to you pal?!

Just because someone started in one weightclass and hand a few fights in said weightclass doesn't mean a ranking in that weightclass. Who did he beat in the LH division to merit a ranking?

To my knowledge he fought a handful of fights at middle, moved up and fought at LH for about 17 fights (where he lost to Joey Maxim) and the rest were at heavyweight.

So, please bestow on me what Floyd accomplished at light heavyweight that would warrant a placement on the list.

Just because someone started in one weightclass and hand a few fights in said weightclass doesn't mean a ranking in that weightclass. Who did he beat in the LH division to merit a ranking?

To my knowledge he fought a handful of fights at middle, moved up and fought at LH for about 17 fights (where he lost to Joey Maxim) and the rest were at heavyweight.

So, please bestow on me what Floyd accomplished at light heavyweight that would warrant a placement on the list.
Its funny how Patterson beat Maxim but it was given to Maxim because of the color of his skin. Patterson beat him and everyone knows it, the fight was so close that it was the perfect reason for giving it to the white man. Not to sound racist because I'm white myself but damn Patterson beat Maxim pal.

Its funny how Patterson beat Maxim but it was given to Maxim because of the color of his skin. Patterson beat him and everyone knows it, the fight was so close that it was the perfect reason for giving it to the white man. Not to sound racist because I'm white myself but damn Patterson beat Maxim pal.

That still didn't answer the question...what did Patterson do to warrant placement on an all-time LH list?

That still didn't answer the question...what did Patterson do to warrant placement on an all-time LH list?
How about knocking out Archie Moore faster than Charles ever could? Moore himself said Patterson hit him as hard as Marciano did.

How about knocking out Archie Moore faster than Charles ever could? Moore himself said Patterson hit him as hard as Marciano did.

That fight occured at heavyweight, seeing as how it was for the vacant title.

That fight occured at heavyweight, seeing as how it was for the vacant title.
Yes the vacant title that Marciano refused to defend against a prime fighter! Still two natural light heavyweights going at it and Patterson knocking Moore with one punch a very very fast hook!

Patterson was the key to letting boxing develop and get out of its bar brawling idea.

I seriously would not doubt if he was said to punch as hard/harder as marciano, because it would only make sense, the guy lunges into his punches.

Patterson was the key to letting boxing develop and get out of its bar brawling idea.

I seriously would not doubt if he was said to punch as hard/harder as marciano, because it would only make sense, the guy lunges into his punches.

:owned: He does hit as hard as Marciano, maybe even harder. After the fight Moore said the last time he was hit that hard Marciano was standing over him. Too bad Marciano couldn't finish Moore like Patterson did, fast and in one round. Also, Patterson was never knocked down, not even close!

:owned: He does hit as hard as Marciano, maybe even harder. After the fight Moore said the last time he was hit that hard Marciano was standing over him. Too bad Marciano couldn't finish Moore like Patterson did, fast and in one round. Also, Patterson was never knocked down, not even close!

Really? Have you seen a different Floyd Patterson than everyone else?

If so I guess those 7 knockdowns against Liston were a figment of everyone's imagination huh?

Truth be told he was knocked down something like 19 times in his career.

If you're just referring to the Moore fight then you have to look at the style's of fighter. You can't judge a fighter based on who got knocked down by who.

Ever heard the saying, styles make fights? Marciano was a far easier target to hit than Floyd with his straight ahead, relentless style.

I love Floyd but you cannot compare his chin to Marciano's.

Really? Have you seen a different Floyd Patterson than everyone else?

If so I guess those 7 knockdowns against Liston were a figment of everyone's imagination huh?

Truth be told he was knocked down something like 19 times in his career.

If you're just referring to the Moore fight then you have to look at the style's of fighter. You can't judge a fighter based on who got knocked down by who.

Ever heard the saying, styles make fights? Marciano was a far easier target to hit than Floyd with his straight ahead, relentless style.

I love Floyd but you cannot compare his chin to Marciano's.

First what does Sonny Liston the guy that would have put Marciano in a hospital bed have to do with this? I said Patterson was never knocked down once by Archie Moore you hard headed......never mind. Secondly, how many times did Floyd get right back up, he should be considered by everyone one of the toughest fighters ever, he got into the ring with beasts and they were in their primes or at least had youth. Moore may have been old but in comparison Marciano fought an old Archie Moore as well so there is a strong comparison to who fought Moore better because it was a year later.

Patterson knocking Moore out is just a huge testament to how soft Marciano really was, I don't think Marciano would have been able to deal with Patterson's raw talent and speed. His power is just as great so I guess if Marciano could take one of his own punches he could take Patterson's. That is if he can take a bundle of them in one round. Patterson's defense alone would have broken down Marciano. Liston had a very very powerful jab and long one at that, something Marciano will never compare to, not even the most basic of jab punchers in boxing. Also Liston had tremendous power in both hands and could take a punch like any other tough guy.

Yes styles make for fights and that is why Patterson would crush Marciano, Rocky wouldn't even be able to catch Patterson with a clean shot and would get countered all night long until he hits the canvas. The fact of the matter is, the Patterson that got crushed by Liston would have still done a better job than the hospital beating Marciano would have taken had he stayed long enough to face Liston! Chin has nothing to do with it when you can lay down about 3 punches faster than you can try and punch back. Marciano would fold under the pressure of Patterson's flurries and great defense.

First what does Sonny Liston the guy that would have put Marciano in a hospital bed have to do with this? I said Patterson was never knocked down once by Archie Moore you hard headed......never mind. Secondly, how many times did Floyd get right back up, he should be considered by everyone one of the toughest fighters ever, he got into the ring with beasts and they were in their primes or at least had youth. Moore may have been old but in comparison Marciano fought an old Archie Moore as well so there is a strong comparison to who fought Moore better because it was a year later.

Patterson knocking Moore out is just a huge testament to how soft Marciano really was, I don't think Marciano would have been able to deal with Patterson's raw talent and speed. His power is just as great so I guess if Marciano could take one of his own punches he could take Patterson's. That is if he can take a bundle of them in one round. Patterson's defense alone would have broken down Marciano. Liston had a very very powerful jab and long one at that, something Marciano will never compare to, not even the most basic of jab punchers in boxing. Also Liston had tremendous power in both hands and could take a punch like any other tough guy.

Yes styles make for fights and that is why Patterson would crush Marciano, Rocky wouldn't even be able to catch Patterson with a clean shot and would get countered all night long until he hits the canvas. The fact of the matter is, the Patterson that got crushed by Liston would have still done a better job than the hospital beating Marciano would have taken had he stayed long enough to face Liston! Chin has nothing to do with it when you can lay down about 3 punches faster than you can try and punch back. Marciano would fold under the pressure of Patterson's flurries and great defense.


How can you say that tho? Marciano never lost. So there is no blueprint to say for sure how to beat Marciano. He faced a couple guys who were just as quick and as talented as Patterson and that is Ezzard Charles and Roland LaStarza. He faced guys that hit had as much power as Floyd too.

Ezz had deceptive power and hand speed. The Marciano fights ruined Ezz, but going into the fights he retained enough of his natural ability to be able to gauge how Rocky would do against other more technical fighters.

Regardless of who it was Rock always caught them in the end because he never ever quit coming at you.

Hawk

EDIT : As far as the Liston comparison I realized what you were talking about after I had replied - hence my amendment at the end.

How can you say that tho? Marciano never lost. So there is no blueprint to say for sure how to beat Marciano. He faced a couple guys who were just as quick and as talented as Patterson and that is Ezzard Charles and Roland LaStarza. He faced guys that hit had as much power as Floyd too.

Ezz had deceptive power and hand speed. The Marciano fights ruined Ezz, but going into the fights he retained enough of his natural ability to be able to gauge how Rocky would do against other more technical fighters.

Regardless of who it was Rock always caught them in the end because he never ever quit coming at you.

Hawk

EDIT : As far as the Liston comparison I realized what you were talking about after I had replied - hence my amendment at the end.

Ezzard Charles wasn't nearly as great of a heavyweight as Patterson. He lost 25 time in his whole career far more than Patterson who isn't that far behind in fights. Besides the point Charles was in a heap of wars before facing Marciano. His career literally ended after fighting Marciano and is prove of the prime he had long ago passed. Charles was out of it in both fights with Marciano he just wasn't the fighter he use to be and not so great as every one thinks he was. For the times Marciano was floored it was because of age that his opponents did not finish him off (Archie Moore).

Roland LaStarza are you kidding me? The same guy who got smashed by the hands of a stiff named Julio Mederos. Roland was never a great heavyweight, he was put up against more stiffs than Jenna Jamison could ride! Roland shouldn't even be mentioned as a suitable contender for the heavyweights, he wasn't a real test for Marciano but did manage to take him the distance once. The only credit Marciano has for defeating Roland is giving Roland his first lose, other than that it only proves that Marciano was at least better than the bums Roland was facing up until that point.

If you ask me it sure did take Marciano a long time to finish off even the most mediocre of opponents. His power wasn't that great and his skill was even worse but his toughness prevailed over lusterless talent!

Ezzard Charles wasn't nearly as great of a heavyweight as Patterson. He lost 25 time in his whole career far more than Patterson who isn't that far behind in fights. Besides the point Charles was in a heap of wars before facing Marciano. His career literally ended after fighting Marciano and is prove of the prime he had long ago passed. Charles was out of it in both fights with Marciano he just wasn't the fighter he use to be and not so great as every one thinks he was. For the times Marciano was floored it was because of age that his opponents did not finish him off (Archie Moore).

Roland LaStarza are you kidding me? The same guy who got smashed by the hands of a stiff named Julio Mederos. Roland was never a great heavyweight, he was put up against more stiffs than Jenna Jamison could ride! Roland shouldn't even be mentioned as a suitable contender for the heavyweights, he wasn't a real test for Marciano but did manage to take him the distance once. The only credit Marciano has for defeating Roland is giving Roland his first lose, other than that it only proves that Marciano was at least better than the bums Roland was facing up until that point.

If you ask me it sure did take Marciano a long time to finish off even the most mediocre of opponents. His power wasn't that great and his skill was even worse but his toughness prevailed over lusterless talent!



You are aware that 16 of Ezzard Charles' losses came AFTER the second Marciano fight right? Most experts agreed that Ezz was completely used up and ruined after that fight. But before it, Ezzard Charles still had gas in the tank and was still a supremely skilled heavyweight. He had superior technical ability and hand speed almost on the level of Patterson - the only area where he was behind is in power. That being said Ezz still had very deceptive power.

So to dismiss him is totally unfair - Ezzard was very sharp in both Marciano fights and was ahead in the second, with a bad cut to Rocky, before he was stopped.

I so totally disagree that Ezzard Charles wasn't as good of a heavyweight as Floyd. I think he was as good, if not better, plus he had alot better chin than Floyd. The only thing is Ezzard started at heavyweight alot later than Floyd, but overall he was just as good.

As for LaStarva, he was most certainly a good heavyweight of the time. A great technical boxer with an iron chin and decent pop to his punches. The loss you refer to is after the Marciano rematch ; which ruined him. He said it himself.

LaStarza's arms were broken in the rematch with Rocky. Broken by the multitude of punches he was hit with. The match you refer to - the Julio Mederos fight was two and half years after the second Marciano fight. Again, including the Marciano fight 6 of his 9 career losses came afterwards.

But make no mistake, LaStarva was no bum - far from it. Rocky proved in these two fights at least that he could catch up with, and deal with slick boxer/counter punchers and win the fight.

Ezzard Charles wasn't nearly as great of a heavyweight as Patterson. He lost 25 time in his whole career far more than Patterson who isn't that far behind in fights. Besides the point Charles was in a heap of wars before facing Marciano. His career literally ended after fighting Marciano and is prove of the prime he had long ago passed. Charles was out of it in both fights with Marciano he just wasn't the fighter he use to be and not so great as every one thinks he was. For the times Marciano was floored it was because of age that his opponents did not finish him off (Archie Moore).

Roland LaStarza are you kidding me? The same guy who got smashed by the hands of a stiff named Julio Mederos. Roland was never a great heavyweight, he was put up against more stiffs than Jenna Jamison could ride! Roland shouldn't even be mentioned as a suitable contender for the heavyweights, he wasn't a real test for Marciano but did manage to take him the distance once. The only credit Marciano has for defeating Roland is giving Roland his first lose, other than that it only proves that Marciano was at least better than the bums Roland was facing up until that point.

If you ask me it sure did take Marciano a long time to finish off even the most mediocre of opponents. His power wasn't that great and his skill was even worse but his toughness prevailed over lusterless talent!


In his prime, Ezzard Charles was a better over-all boxer then Patterson was, BUT when Rocky fought Charles, he was on the way down. Also, Charles fought most of his career at a lower weight. As far as LaStarza goes, he also was an Outstanding boxer, with an Outstanding record going into the 1st bout with Rocky, BUT he was never a Great boxer.

If I had to rate them at the time they fought Rocky and the time Patterson fought Moore, I would have to say that Patterson would have the edge.

If Rocky stayed around to box Patterson, I can see Patterson winning the opening rounds because of his speed of hand, BUT I can also see Rocky catching up to him in the later rounds and winning by a KO.

You are aware that 16 of Ezzard Charles' losses came AFTER the second Marciano fight right? Most experts agreed that Ezz was completely used up and ruined after that fight. But before it, Ezzard Charles still had gas in the tank and was still a supremely skilled heavyweight. He had superior technical ability and hand speed almost on the level of Patterson - the only area where he was behind is in power. That being said Ezz still had very deceptive power.

So to dismiss him is totally unfair - Ezzard was very sharp in both Marciano fights and was ahead in the second, with a bad cut to Rocky, before he was stopped.

I so totally disagree that Ezzard Charles wasn't as good of a heavyweight as Floyd. I think he was as good, if not better, plus he had alot better chin than Floyd. The only thing is Ezzard started at heavyweight alot later than Floyd, but overall he was just as good.

As for LaStarva, he was most certainly a good heavyweight of the time. A great technical boxer with an iron chin and decent pop to his punches. The loss you refer to is after the Marciano rematch ; which ruined him. He said it himself.

LaStarza's arms were broken in the rematch with Rocky. Broken by the multitude of punches he was hit with. The match you refer to - the Julio Mederos fight was two and half years after the second Marciano fight. Again, including the Marciano fight 6 of his 9 career losses came afterwards.

But make no mistake, LaStarva was no bum - far from it. Rocky proved in these two fights at least that he could catch up with, and deal with slick boxer/counter punchers and win the fight.


An Interview with Roland LaStarza about Rocky:



Former Golden Gloves champ and heavyweight contender Roland LaStarza was unable to join us today. However, he shared these stories about his career and wished everyone in attendance well.


On fighting Rocky Marciano: "I won the first fight. Everyone thought I won the first fight except the referee. One judge scored it for me, the ref and the other judge gave it to Marciano. All the newspaper guys gave me the decision.


"The second fight, ruined me. It was easy at first. Then in maybe the sixth round I blocked a punch with my left arm and my left was gone. I blocked one of his right hands and that was it. I hurt that arm in training and when I blocked that punch I damaged blood vessels in my arm. I stood there and took a beating until the 11th.


"If I had one word to describe Rocky it would be relentless. I would throw a right hand, he would throw a right hand. But the difference was Rocky would throw 10. He didn't hit me the hardest, but he hit me the most often. Don't get me wrong, Rocky was a great fighter. He was tough and he never stopped throwing punches."

In his prime, Ezzard Charles was a better over-all boxer then Patterson was, BUT when Rocky fought Charles, he was on the way down. Also, Charles fought most of his career at a lower weight. As far as LaStarza goes, he also was an Outstanding boxer, with an Outstanding record going into the 1st bout with Rocky, BUT he was never a Great boxer.

If I had to rate them at the time they fought Rocky and the time Patterson fought Moore, I would have to say that Patterson would have the edge.

If Rocky stayed around to box Patterson, I can see Patterson winning the opening rounds because of his speed of hand, BUT I can also see Rocky catching up to him in the later rounds and winning by a KO.

Sorry but I can't get over the thought that Sonny Liston would have crushed Marciano but left Patterson battered. All in all, Patterson only had a weak chin because he wasn't a natural heavyweight everyone knows that. Marciano was! Still, if Marciano can be taken down with one punch for a knockdown by a very aging Archie Moore than hell knows what could have happened had he faced the same caliber of fighter in Archie Moore at heavyweight with the appropriate age. If anything Charles was great against boxers, he didn't do so well against brawlers who constantly came at you, Archie Moore on the other hand did, that guy was a real class warrior in the ring. The minute he hit heavyweight he was fighting everyone and didn't duck anyone. Charles may have had the upper hand on Moore at light heavyweight but at heavyweight Moore was better, it was his age that prevented him from becoming a world champ at that weight but his style of boxing was allot better than Charles and he could take a bigger beating. Archie Moore kept fighting long after fighting Marciano and til the day he died said he was hit harder than Marciano in more than a few occasions. Fact is all of Marciano's formidable opponents just ran into him at the wrong time and wrong era. They all ruled at one point years before anyone even knew about Rocky Marciano. What really made Marciano think about the fact of a possible fight with Patterson had he stuck around. You know, Cus D'Amato wanted the match and was literally dying for it to have happened. Patterson destroying Moore faster than Marciano did was a huge testament for Cus D'Amato he said Patterson had the style to beat Marciano just received the chance to prove it.

I think Patterson would have beaten Charles into a pulp!

How in the hell did this thread of who has the fastest hands out of Mike Tyson and Joe Louis turn into a debate on how good Marciano really was and the opposition he faced?

I for one would just like to say that we really need to jump back onto subject and however this turned lets just leave it behind. What is said is said now back to the matter at hand, who has the faster hands between Joe Louis and Mike Tyson, of course Mike Tyson.

Anyone who wants to argue that bring it on....................:boxing: lol

How in the hell did this thread of who has the fastest hands out of Mike Tyson and Joe Louis turn into a debate on how good Marciano really was and the opposition he faced?

I for one would just like to say that we really need to jump back onto subject and however this turned lets just leave it behind. What is said is said now back to the matter at hand, who has the faster hands between Joe Louis and Mike Tyson, of course Mike Tyson.

Anyone who wants to argue that bring it on....................:boxing: lol

LOL I don't know..some of these threads take on a life all their own.

How in the hell did this thread of who has the fastest hands out of Mike Tyson and Joe Louis turn into a debate on how good Marciano really was and the opposition he faced?

I for one would just like to say that we really need to jump back onto subject and however this turned lets just leave it behind. What is said is said now back to the matter at hand, who has the faster hands between Joe Louis and Mike Tyson, of course Mike Tyson.

Anyone who wants to argue that bring it on....................:boxing: lol


hy i thoughtvit was you!

If there was any way in hell (lol) that Louis was faster than Tyson, it was unnoticeable to me. As mentioned previously, Louis didn't throw the quick combinations Tyson threw. The Donnie Long fight is a good example of that speed. The finishing combo was a left hook to the body followed immediately with another left hook to the head and with power. No one ever had the combination of hand speed and power that Tyson had as a young fighter.

If there was any way in hell (lol) that Louis was faster than Tyson, it was unnoticeable to me. As mentioned previously, Louis didn't throw the quick combinations Tyson threw. The Donnie Long fight is a good example of that speed. The finishing combo was a left hook to the body followed immediately with another left hook to the head and with power. No one ever had the combination of hand speed and power that Tyson had as a young fighter.

Not to mention how much bigger Donny Long was in that fight. Tyson obliterated that guy to the point where he made him cry on the canvas lol. Mike was so fast he could make a grown man cry, now that is unbelievable.

hy i thoughtvit was you!

No it wasn't me, I think it was Hawkins. Not really sure and not in the mood to trace back on it. Lets just jump passed all that OK.

I don't see how that is such a joke. Louis had really fast hands.

you're just a classic boxing fighter nutthugger. louis was just a power puncher with average speed.

tyson threw power punches combinations with speed, and moved way better than joe louis.

here's proof..



<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TnpAzWPuOww&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TnpAzWPuOww&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>