i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. now with tyson when he went in with mitch green he used wide bob and weaves and kept his hands up and threw more then just the left look when going in,and threw the jab to get in also.I know u cant compare green to ali but they both threw alot in that fight and tyson reminded me of frazier in that fight. example of how tyson fought green.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBChe576oRI

No, i dont believe so.
The main reason Tyson was effective against Green was that Green didnt throw the hard flurries Ali did against Frazier.
Ali's punches are far more accurate, plus he would be constantly throwing shots. Green doesnt throw enough at range, the jabs he throws arent effective. And he lets Tyson work on the inside which Ali wouldnt have done.

Frazier could bob and weave for 15 rounds, Tyson would only do that at times. He often came in without head movement, throwing out his jab or just bulling his way in to work on the inside. Ali would have made hm pay.

No, i dont believe so.
The main reason Tyson was effective against Green was that Green didnt throw the hard flurries Ali did against Frazier.
Ali's punches are far more accurate, plus he would be constantly throwing shots. Green doesnt throw enough at range, the jabs he throws arent effective. And he lets Tyson work on the inside which Ali wouldnt have done.

Frazier could bob and weave for 15 rounds, Tyson would only do that at times. He often came in without head movement, throwing out his jab or just bulling his way in to work on the inside. Ali would have made hm pay.

but in the green fight he always bobbed and weaved but for 10rds(the limit).and yeah ali's punchs r more accurate but how accurate can u be if tyson is throwing the jab in your face to hit u and blind u.

but in the green fight he always bobbed and weaved but for 10rds(the limit).and yeah ali's punchs r more accurate but how accurate can u be if tyson is throwing the jab in your face to hit u and blind u.

From wat i just watched, I dont think he was bobbing constantly. And Green isnt throwing enough to keep him off.
Ali would of used his reached and speed to get off his shots first.

Im not saying it would be easy. But overall thats how i see it. Tyson threw great shots on the inside. But i dont think Ali would have let him.

From wat i just watched, I dont think he was bobbing constantly. And Green isnt throwing enough to keep him off.
Ali would of used his reached and speed to get off his shots first.

Im not saying it would be easy. But overall thats how i see it. Tyson threw great shots on the inside. But i dont think Ali would have let him.

oh ok. but can we agree that tyson had his hands up higher then frazier and would get hit less by ali by doing so

Yea. I think having his gloves up would help. But he'd still be hit.

Tyson was great at countering opponents jabs and forcing them back, then unloading. But with Ali throwing 3 and 4 very fast hard shots at a time, i see Tyson getting caught wenever he comes forward.

Also Ali wasnt at his best against Frazier, and still punished him for the first 5 rounds or so.

Yea. I think having his gloves up would help. But he'd still be hit.

Tyson was great at countering opponents jabs and forcing them back, then unloading. But with Ali throwing 3 and 4 very fast hard shots at a time, i see Tyson getting caught wenever he comes forward.

Also Ali wasnt at his best against Frazier, and still punished him for the first 5 rounds or so.


remember before frazier his chin wasnt great neither

In all honesty, Green probably didn't come to fight for Tyson, that was decided before they even stepped in the ring.

remember before frazier his chin wasnt great neither

cos only two fighters ever stopped him compared to Tysons 5?

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. now with tyson when he went in with mitch green he used wide bob and weaves and kept his hands up and threw more then just the left look when going in,and threw the jab to get in also.I know u cant compare green to ali but they both threw alot in that fight and tyson reminded me of frazier in that fight. example of how tyson fought green.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBChe576oRI

Judging from that fight, Tyson more than likely could have beaten the Ali that fought Frazier, but I'm still sold on the prime Ali in this one.

remember before frazier his chin wasnt great neither

It was the same chin he had against Frazier.

I have no idea why you chose this particular fight which was dull and had the crowd booing. I certainly wouldn't consider this one of Tyson's better performances. Not by a long shot.

Green offered very little offence or mobility and Tyson for the most part was content to lunge in with power shots then immediately rest on the inside and lock arms with Green and wait for the ref to break them apart. Tyson's one-punch power wasn't even on display as he never seriously hurt Green who was a fighter with little credentials other than losing a lopsided decision to Trevor Berbick.

Ummmm.....he was tall and had a good chin though.


I had to turn the sound off as I was reminded of why Ray Leonard is never used as a color commentator anymore. That's probably the worst most one sided call I've ever heard. Even when Green lands a clean solid punch Ray manages to gush praise upon Tyson "Look at Mike he's smiling!"....oh brother.

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. now with tyson when he went in with mitch green he used wide bob and weaves and kept his hands up and threw more then just the left look when going in,and threw the jab to get in also.I know u cant compare green to ali but they both threw alot in that fight and tyson reminded me of frazier in that fight. example of how tyson fought green.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBChe576oRI


No. That is all.

cos only two fighters ever stopped him compared to Tysons 5?

tyson lost mentally to alot of his fights,except for the douglas fight and lewis

It was the same chin he had against Frazier.

ali was hurt alot in his prime and knocked down. he hardly was knocked down after his exile

I have no idea why you chose this particular fight which was dull and had the crowd booing. I certainly wouldn't consider this one of Tyson's better performances. Not by a long shot.

Green offered very little offence or mobility and Tyson for the most part was content to lunge in with power shots then immediately rest on the inside and lock arms with Green and wait for the ref to break them apart. Tyson's one-punch power wasn't even on display as he never seriously hurt Green who was a fighter with little credentials other than losing a lopsided decision to Trevor Berbick.

Ummmm.....he was tall and had a good chin though.


I had to turn the sound off as I was reminded of why Ray Leonard is never used as a color commentator anymore. That's probably the worst most one sided call I've ever heard. Even when Green lands a clean solid punch Ray manages to gush praise upon Tyson "Look at Mike he's smiling!"....oh brother.

i didnt choose this fight because of the excitment.i choose it cause he fought sorta like frazier but in my opinion alittle better in this fight

No. That is all.

the man with many words has none? im shocked,i think it woulda been a good match up with those styles

ali was hurt alot in his prime and knocked down. he hardly was knocked down after his exile

Actually, Ali was hurt maybe two times in his prime and knocked down zero times, so you're wrong. Ali's chin was the same.

Actually, Ali was hurt maybe two times in his prime and knocked down zero times, so you're wrong. Ali's chin was the same.

no u was wrong and u just proved it he was knocked down by cooper and sonny banks in his prime and other ppl. get it right son.

no u was wrong and u just proved it he was knocked down by cooper and other ppl. get it right son.

I'll repeat myself. Ali was never floored in his prime. Ali's prime was not in the first Cooper fight.

These are Ali's prime fights.

1964

Sonny Liston - Hurt once or twice

1965

Sonny Liston - Not hurt once

Floyd Patterosn - Hit maybe once or twice all night

1966

George Chuvalo - not hurt

Henry Cooper - not hurt

Brian London - Barely hit

Karl Mildenburger - Stunned a little in the 10th round

Cleveland Williams - Barely hit

1967

Ernie Terrel - barely hit

Zora Folley - not hurt




So that's a total of being hurt maybe three times, and being floored zero times.

End of discussion.

the man with many words has none? im shocked,i think it woulda been a good match up with those styles


Would you think it accurate to compare Mitch Green to Muhammad Ali?

I'll repeat myself. Ali was never floored in his prime. Ali's prime was not in the first Cooper fight.

These are Ali's prime fights.

1964

Sonny Liston - Hurt once or twice

1965

Sonny Liston - Not hurt once

Floyd Patterosn - Hit maybe once or twice all night

1966

George Chuvalo - not hurt

Henry Cooper - not hurt

Brian London - Barely hit

Karl Mildenburger - Stunned a little in the 10th round

Cleveland Williams - Barely hit

1967

Ernie Terrel - barely hit

Zora Folley - not hurt




So that's a total of being hurt maybe three times, and being floored zero times.

End of discussion.

my ass ali's prime wasnt in 66' quit bull****ting just cause u got proved wrong:owned: and reread my post i edited it earlier

Would you think it accurate to compare Mitch Green to Muhammad Ali?

see the only 1 that got confused. i said tyson's STYLE vs. green.i even said i know green isnt ne where close to ali.i just used that video as a reference to show u how he fought in that particular fight.hell his opponent could of been sonny liston for all i care but thats what i wasnt getting at

see the only 1 that got confused. i said tyson's STYLE vs. green.i even said i know green isnt ne where close to ali.i just used that video as a reference to show u how he fought in that particular fight.hell his opponent could of been sonny liston for all i care but thats what i wasnt getting at


No, I'm not confused. I'm trying to make a point. Mike Tyson has always had the same style. In some fights he looked better than in others; but that was usually due to what his opponents did or did not do. How Mike fought Mitch is relative only to that one fight because Ali would not have fought like Green; he would have fought like Ali.

Any version of a prime Tyson would have given Ali some trouble in the early going; but as the fight progressed, Ali would have broadened the gap between the two and more than likely stopped him late, IMO.

Mike looked like he did against Green because it was agasint Greeen.

my ass ali's prime wasnt in 66' quit bull****ting just cause u got proved wrong:owned: and reread my post i edited it earlier

Banks and cooper was not his prime, why do you say that? he was young and pretty small in those days, not the monster he was in the mid to late 1960s.

No, I'm not confused. I'm trying to make a point. Mike Tyson has always had the same style. In some fights he looked better than in others; but that was usually due to what his opponents did or did not do. How Mike fought Mitch is relative only to that one fight because Ali would not have fought like Green; he would have fought like Ali.

Any version of a prime Tyson would have given Ali some trouble in the early going; but as the fight progressed, Ali would have broadened the gap between the two and more than likely stopped him late, IMO.

Mike looked like he did against Green because it was agasint Greeen.

how else would mike fight a guy that throws punches in flurries like green did without really being hit? ali threw flurries also of course alot faster and more powerful ones but he did throw them. tyson had good defense but i dont see how ne 1 can get out of the way of punches unless they fought like frazier did to ali and how tyson did to green.

Banks and cooper was not his prime, why do you say that? he was young and pretty small in those days, not the monster he was in the mid to late 1960s.

i guess so butterfly

i guess so butterfly

He weighed 194½ against banks, so that's definetely not his prime. Plus, his style wasn't perfected at that time as he was not really a defensive fighter, he would still trade punches. Lter on, he worked on his defense a lot. And against Cooper he was only 21, and had skinny arms, that wasn't his prime either.

He weighed 194½ against banks, so that's definetely not his prime. Plus, his style wasn't perfected at that time as he was not really a defensive fighter, he would still trade punches. Lter on, he worked on his defense a lot. And against Cooper he was only 21, and had skinny arms, that wasn't his prime either.

ok your right. i didnt realize the dates he fought them. but his chin still wasnt good before the frazier fight.(thats what i should have said instead of adding the word prime) sorry bout that.:kiss:

how else would mike fight a guy that throws punches in flurries like green did without really being hit? ali threw flurries also of course alot faster and more powerful ones but he did throw them. tyson had good defense but i dont see how ne 1 can get out of the way of punches unless they fought like frazier did to ali and how tyson did to green.

Because Mike is not Joe Frazier and did not fight like Frazier. Mike did have good defense and did bob and weave very well in his prime; but he was always a fast starter and could have the pace dictated to him after the initial furry of the first few rounds. Joe started slow and picked up momentum as the fight went on.

Correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen any part of the Green fight; but didn't it involve Mitch flurrying a little, Mike dodging and ducking and getting on the inside...where Mitch would quasi-tie him up, then free one hand here and the other there to throw shots at Tyson from the inside?

Ali did not fight like that. Ali fought from long range almost exclusively because he wasn't a good infighter and he had the speed to avoid punches pretty easily from long range. MIke really wasn't an inside fighter, he was more of a mid-range fighter and Frazier was almost exclusively an inside fighter. Joe's job was to work his way into your chest and beat on you until your guard came down so he could take your head off with that hook. Mike's job was to bob and weave and make you miss while inching deceptively closer and then explode with four or five murderous counters once he got his feet set....but Mitch kind of made hiim fight on the inside, which is where Mike wasn't comfortable and was least effective because he couldn't get full leverage on his punches from that close....which is primarily why Mitch lasted the distance.

Ali, on the other hand, fought you from the outside behind a stinging jab which blinded you and nailed you as you came in. If you got too close, he'd tie you up until the referee broke you up.

Mike's style against Green was due mostly to what Green was doing because Mike was not really proactive when his opponent was.

Because Mike is not Joe Frazier and did not fight like Frazier. Mike did have good defense and did bob and weave very well in his prime; but he was always a fast starter and could have the pace dictated to him after the initial furry of the first few rounds. Joe started slow and picked up momentum as the fight went on.

Correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a long time since I've seen any part of the Green fight; but didn't it involve Mitch flurrying a little, Mike dodging and ducking and getting on the inside...where Mitch would quasi-tie him up, then free one hand here and the other there to throw shots at Tyson from the inside?

Ali did not fight like that. Ali fought from long range almost exclusively because he wasn't a good infighter and he had the speed to avoid punches pretty easily from long range. MIke really wasn't an inside fighter, he was more of a mid-range fighter and Frazier was almost exclusively an inside fighter. Joe's job was to work his way into your chest and beat on you until your guard came down so he could take your head off with that hook. Mike's job was to bob and weave and make you miss while inching deceptively closer and then explode with four or five murderous counters once he got his feet set....but Mitch kind of made hiim fight on the inside, which is where Mike wasn't comfortable and was least effective because he couldn't get full leverage on his punches from that close....which is primarily why Mitch lasted the distance.

Ali, on the other hand, fought you from the outside behind a stinging jab which blinded you and nailed you as you came in. If you got too close, he'd tie you up until the referee broke you up.

Mike's style against Green was due mostly to what Green was doing because Mike was not really proactive when his opponent was.

ok theres good points there. but i still think it would be an interesting fight.

ok theres good points there. but i still think it would be an interesting fight.

:) I never said it wouldn't be intereting! An Ali-Tyson showdown would be beyond interesting....FAR BEYOND. lol!!!!!

ok your right. i didnt realize the dates he fought them. but his chin still wasnt good before the frazier fight.(thats what i should have said instead of adding the word prime) sorry bout that.:kiss:

In 1966-1967, his chin was as good as it ever would be, IMO.

Vesatile2k6 I agree wit pretty much everything uve said throughout this whole thread :biggthump

He weighed 194½ against banks, so that's definetely not his prime. Plus, his style wasn't perfected at that time as he was not really a defensive fighter, he would still trade punches. Lter on, he worked on his defense a lot. And against Cooper he was only 21, and had skinny arms, that wasn't his prime either.

Didnt we hav this arguement in an another thread and u said weight didnt have **** to do with taking a punch? Think it was u anyway. But yeah this was defo not his prime!

remember before frazier his chin wasnt great neither


His chin was no different prior to Frazier. When was he knocked out? And don't spring Henry's Hammer on me because despite the circumstances, Ali got up and won the fight!
Zora Folley, Sonny Liston and George Chuvalo couldn't knock him out! Hardly the basis to form an opinion that Ali's chin weren't that good prior to Frazier 1.

Maybe, but i bet Foreman and his arsenal of fanboys might agree that Tyson and Ali would lose to George in 1 ring.

His chin was no different prior to Frazier. When was he knocked out? And don't spring Henry's Hammer on me because despite the circumstances, Ali got up and won the fight!
Zora Folley, Sonny Liston and George Chuvalo couldn't knock him out! Hardly the basis to form an opinion that Ali's chin weren't that good prior to Frazier 1.


couldnt k.o him but he still was hurt and knocked down alot more before he fought frazier and to much weaker opposition.

On the "chin" issue.....Chins don't get better with time. If anything, they get worse like a piece of granite that you pound on with a sledge over and over again over a period of years....sooner or later, it's going to crack.

You either have whiskers or you don't. Ali getting dropped early in his career had more to do with him always being on his toes than anything else. When he got older, he knew he couldn't "Float Like a Butterfly" as much any more, so he had his feet planted more often. That, and he'd acquired the confidence of knowing he had a good chin from all the times he'd taken a solid shot. A young fighter, or a young Ali, to be more specific, didn't want to get hit and didn't know he could take a punch because he rarely had to; and, despite all of that outward bravado, was human and had self-doubts on the inside. Not knowing you can take a punch can get you knocked down just as surely as not believing in yourself can cost you a fight.

I dont know why you guys argue about ''Prime Ali''s chin. Wether it was the same or not, with his kind of reflexes, he wouldn't have to worry about it that much. It was after he became slower where we could see his chin getting tested and how good it was.

Crickey, you beat me to it again:ugh:

On the "chin" issue.....Chins don't get better with time. If anything, they get worse like a piece of granite that you pound on with a sledge over and over again over a period of years....sooner or later, it's going to crack.

You either have whiskers or you don't. Ali getting dropped early in his career had more to do with him always being on his toes than anything else. When he got older, he knew he couldn't "Float Like a Butterfly" as much any more, so he had his feet planted more often. That, and he'd acquired the confidence of knowing he had a good chin from all the times he'd taken a solid shot. A young fighter, or a young Ali, to be more specific, didn't want to get hit and didn't know he could take a punch because he rarely had to; and, despite all of that outward bravado, was human and had self-doubts on the inside. Not knowing you can take a punch can get you knocked down just as surely as not believing in yourself can cost you a fight.

maybe it did have to be tested to see it. but i think it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought frazier

maybe it did have to be tested to see it. but i think it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought frazier

Well, as I'd alluded to, mentality is everything when it comes to taking a punch. Remember, Ali, when he fought Frazier, was someone who had be denied the right to fight for 3 and a half years. He missed it all that time because he loved doing it.....and he realized how much he'd taken it for granted.

Not only was the Ali that fought from 1960-1964 different physically from the one who fought from 1970-1981, he was a different man, mentally. The Ali of the 1960's hadn't really become a "man" yet. He grew in more ways than one during his exile.

Crickey, you beat me to it again:ugh:

Hey, at least we're on the same page. :D

maybe it did have to be tested to see it. but i think it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought frazier

I pretty much agree with everything K-Dogg has posted. I really don't think that it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought Frazier! Prior to his exile Ali was a different fighter, he adjusted his style accordingly after his exile. Frazier 1 was obviously his toughest fight to date after the exile.
As far as i recall Ali was dropped twice prior to the first Frazier fight, and he beat hard punchers like Liston, Cooper, Chuvalo, and Folley. Obviously he was hurt against Henry Cooper in their first fight, who wouldn't have been from a shot like that? But again, he didn't develop a stronger chin over time. His style prior to Frazier meant that he could avoid punches a lot easier than he could in the latter part of his career.

I pretty much agree with everything K-Dogg has posted. I really don't think that it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought Frazier! Prior to his exile Ali was a different fighter, he adjusted his style accordingly after his exile. Frazier 1 was obviously his toughest fight to date after the exile.
As far as i recall Ali was dropped twice prior to the first Frazier fight, and he beat hard punchers like Liston, Cooper, Chuvalo, and Folley. Obviously he was hurt against Henry Cooper in their first fight, who wouldn't have been from a shot like that? But again, he didn't develop a stronger chin over time. His style prior to Frazier meant that he could avoid punches a lot easier than he could in the latter part of his career.

Good post.

I pretty much agree with everything K-Dogg has posted. I really don't think that it was more obvious that he was hurt before he fought Frazier! Prior to his exile Ali was a different fighter, he adjusted his style accordingly after his exile. Frazier 1 was obviously his toughest fight to date after the exile.
As far as i recall Ali was dropped twice prior to the first Frazier fight, and he beat hard punchers like Liston, Cooper, Chuvalo, and Folley. Obviously he was hurt against Henry Cooper in their first fight, who wouldn't have been from a shot like that? But again, he didn't develop a stronger chin over time. His style prior to Frazier meant that he could avoid punches a lot easier than he could in the latter part of his career.

all i said is it was more obvious he was hurt:confused: . as in u can literally see it

all i said is it was more obvious he was hurt:confused: . as in u can literally see it

What are your examples of this? Sure he was hurt against Cooper in the first fight, but despite the circumstances i.e. torn glove etc, he still did very well to recover from Henry's Hammer and go on to stop him in the fifth round as he predicted.
Ali was most certainly hurt after his exile! The difference is his style had changed so it was more apparent how strong/weak his chin was because he was taking more punches than he did in the first stage of his career, and he was also facing a better level of competition IMO. Therefore, if it was more obvious in the first stage of his career that he was hurt, then how come a better level of opponent couldn't hurt him equally or more in the latter part of his career?
Ali would sometimes play act when he was hurt (especially against Frazier) aiming to give his opponent the impression that he wasn't hurt, but this sometimes made it more obvious that he was IMO.
The bottom line is that i don't think that it was more obvious that Ali was hurt in the first stage of his career. His style changed after his exile, not his 'chin!'

What are your examples of this? Sure he was hurt against Cooper in the first fight, but despite the circumstances i.e. torn glove etc, he still did very well to recover from Henry's Hammer and go on to stop him in the fifth round as he predicted.
Ali was most certainly hurt after his exile! The difference is his style had changed so it was more apparent how strong/weak his chin was because he was taking more punches than he did in the first stage of his career, and he was also facing a better level of competition IMO. Therefore, if it was more obvious in the first stage of his career that he was hurt, then how come a better level of opponent couldn't hurt him equally or more in the latter part of his career?
Ali would sometimes play act when he was hurt (especially against Frazier) aiming to give his opponent the impression that he wasn't hurt, but this sometimes made it more obvious that he was IMO.
The bottom line is that i don't think that it was more obvious that Ali was hurt in the first stage of his career. His style changed after his exile, not his 'chin!'

Good post.

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. now with tyson when he went in with mitch green he used wide bob and weaves and kept his hands up and threw more then just the left look when going in,and threw the jab to get in also.I know u cant compare green to ali but they both threw alot in that fight and tyson reminded me of frazier in that fight. example of how tyson fought green.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBChe576oRI

Let me explain something to people about this fight. Cus D'Amato had a word for fighters like Mike Tyson. It's a weasel. A weasel is the opposite of someone with character, someone who was mentally strong enough to persevere and win through adversity. Mike Tyson never had that.

Tyson's hands were fast, but Ali's were faster. Tyson, because he always came in with his feet in perfect position for a power shot, was slow of foot. He would be lost by the movement of Ali. Most fighters have only one direction they can elude from, either the left or the right. Ali was so good with his feet, you get the impression he could slip through the middle if he wanted to.

Do you think that Ali, who got inside the head of better fighters than Tyson, would have been quiet and given Tyson free reign to intimidate at the press conferences? Let me tell you something. Ali would've been on his ass worse than he was with Frazier at the press conferences, embarrassing him and making him look like an ignorant animal. Tyson would have been destroyed at the press con alone.

Tyson's worst tendency is to get frustrated. When things aren't going his way, he'll start to go crazy and winging one punch at a time. You DO NOT throw one shot at a time and expect not to get countered. For Thomas Hauser's bio of Ali, he asked 5 people close to Tyson, Bill Cayton, Teddy Atlas, Jose Torres, Floyd Patterson, and Kevin Rooney who would win if Tyson-Ali fought. EVERY ONE OF THEM picked Ali, with Torres and Atlas picking Tyson to quit.

The people who see Tyson and are like "No one can beat Tyson, Tyson is from the streets" live in a rap and hip hop fantasy world where being the champion of their block makes them the ****.

What are your examples of this? Sure he was hurt against Cooper in the first fight, but despite the circumstances i.e. torn glove etc, he still did very well to recover from Henry's Hammer and go on to stop him in the fifth round as he predicted.
Ali was most certainly hurt after his exile! The difference is his style had changed so it was more apparent how strong/weak his chin was because he was taking more punches than he did in the first stage of his career, and he was also facing a better level of competition IMO. Therefore, if it was more obvious in the first stage of his career that he was hurt, then how come a better level of opponent couldn't hurt him equally or more in the latter part of his career?
Ali would sometimes play act when he was hurt (especially against Frazier) aiming to give his opponent the impression that he wasn't hurt, but this sometimes made it more obvious that he was IMO.
The bottom line is that i don't think that it was more obvious that Ali was hurt in the first stage of his career. His style changed after his exile, not his 'chin!'


i dont care about the recovery part. he was obviously still dazed. but compared to when frazier knocked him down he got up like it wasnt ****. so all im saying is he covered it up well

Good post.

get off his nuts already.your cutting off circulation

i dont care about the recovery part. he was obviously still dazed. but compared to when frazier knocked him down he got up like it wasnt ****. so all im saying is he covered it up well

That's because the punch wasn't that hard. Ali just went down because he was dead tired. He even admits that the punch Cooper hit him with that floored him was much harder than the punch that Frazier hit him with that floored him.

Let me explain something to people about this fight. Cus D'Amato had a word for fighters like Mike Tyson. It's a weasel. A weasel is the opposite of someone with character, someone who was mentally strong enough to persevere and win through adversity. Mike Tyson never had that.

Tyson's hands were fast, but Ali's were faster. Tyson, because he always came in with his feet in perfect position for a power shot, was slow of foot. He would be lost by the movement of Ali. Most fighters have only one direction they can elude from, either the left or the right. Ali was so good with his feet, you get the impression he could slip through the middle if he wanted to.

Do you think that Ali, who got inside the head of better fighters than Tyson, would have been quiet and given Tyson free reign to intimidate at the press conferences? Let me tell you something. Ali would've been on his ass worse than he was with Frazier at the press conferences, embarrassing him and making him look like an ignorant animal. Tyson would have been destroyed at the press con alone.

Tyson's worst tendency is to get frustrated. When things aren't going his way, he'll start to go crazy and winging one punch at a time. You DO NOT throw one shot at a time and expect not to get countered. For Thomas Hauser's bio of Ali, he asked 5 people close to Tyson, Bill Cayton, Teddy Atlas, Jose Torres, Floyd Patterson, and Kevin Rooney who would win if Tyson-Ali fought. EVERY ONE OF THEM picked Ali, with Torres and Atlas picking Tyson to quit.

The people who see Tyson and are like "No one can beat Tyson, Tyson is from the streets" live in a rap and hip hop fantasy world where being the champion of their block makes them the ****.

wait wait wait wait. u know i respect u as a poster and all but that bolded part with tyson being slow on his feet is straight up bull****! it takes alot of quickness to move like that especially weighing 217.i move like he did in his prime but i weigh 175 big difference and ppl still say thats fast for my weight.

and u know i've never said ne1 can beat tyson ahaha im not dumb.but i never saw that bio but i did see on some kind of thing with rooney when asked could tyson being ali and he stumbled.so in that i believe he thinks ali can beat him. but i have never eeeeeeeeeeever said that ali couldnt beat tyson.ever since i saw the tillis fight and the first round of the biggs fight i was convinced that it is possible and vise versa.but for some1 to say that tyson wouldnt have a chance against ali,needs to brush up on more studying

wait wait wait wait. u know i respect u as a poster and all but that bolded part with tyson being slow on his feet is straight up bull****! it takes alot of quickness to move like that especially weighing 217.i move like he did in his prime but i weigh 175 big difference and ppl still say thats fast for my weight.

and u know i've never said ne1 can beat tyson ahaha im not dumb.but i never saw that bio but i did see on some kind of thing with rooney when asked could tyson being ali and he stumbled.so in that i believe he thinks ali can beat him. but i have never eeeeeeeeeeever said that ali couldnt beat tyson.ever since i saw the tillis fight and the first round of the biggs fight i was convinced that it is possible and vise versa.but for some1 to say that tyson wouldnt have a chance against ali,needs to brush up on more studying

Good post. Tyson definetely had great footspeed, and would have a good chance of beating him.

Don't these numerous "Ali vs. Tyson" discussions get old for you guys after awhile?

Don't these numerous "Ali vs. Tyson" discussions get old for you guys after awhile?

yes it does.but this 1 was different i was just asking with that style he had how would he differ. no1 has done something like that before.the key word i was using was "could"

yes it does.but this 1 was different i was just asking with that style he had how would he differ. no1 has done something like that before.the key word i was using was "could"

I would have thought that every and all fights from Ali & Tyson, when at or close to their respective bests, would be part of the equation, but...

*shrugs*

P.S. I'm glad you took my question as being an honest one, because that's what it was intended as.

wait wait wait wait. u know i respect u as a poster and all but that bolded part with tyson being slow on his feet is straight up bull****! it takes alot of quickness to move like that especially weighing 217.i move like he did in his prime but i weigh 175 big difference and ppl still say thats fast for my weight.

and u know i've never said ne1 can beat tyson ahaha im not dumb.but i never saw that bio but i did see on some kind of thing with rooney when asked could tyson being ali and he stumbled.so in that i believe he thinks ali can beat him. but i have never eeeeeeeeeeever said that ali couldnt beat tyson.ever since i saw the tillis fight and the first round of the biggs fight i was convinced that it is possible and vise versa.but for some1 to say that tyson wouldnt have a chance against ali,needs to brush up on more studying

Tyson's feet were fast for a guy who is always in position to sit down on punches and whatnot, but he'd be lost against Ali. It was primarily Tyson's feet that left him in position to get caught coming in, he had good offensive footwork, but didn't recover the best when getting hit and getting back in position.

Also, Tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed properly. We saw this early with Biggs and at moments with Pinklon Thomas.

I don't think Tyson could beat Ali, plain and simple. The Tyson in his prime, maybe 1988-ish, was fighting mentally weak nobodies or guys who simply were over the hill. Truth is, Ali wasn't a guy you could intimidate. Ali fought guys like Foreman, Liston, and Frazier, guys as scary or perhaps even scarier.

Be real with me, if Tyson was getting played out at press cons and found out that not only wasn't Ali intimidated but that Ali thought he was a punk, would Tyson already have it in his mind to quit before the bell rang?

Tyson was a weasel in that he never learned how to face his fears or adversity. That's why he needs that big entourage, because they help mask up where he failed to overcome his greatest adversary, himself.

Don't these numerous "Ali vs. Tyson" discussions get old for you guys after awhile?

This is the first one I am actively engaging in, I'm having a bit of fun myself.

I'm having a bit of fun myself.

Well then, by all means, because that's what it's all about.

Well then, by all means, because that's what it's all about.

I'm fully armed for this thread after reading the Burial chapter of Hauser's Ali bio last night :D I'm ready to kick ass.

I'm fully armed for this thread after reading the Burial chapter of Hauser's Ali bio last night :D I'm ready to kick ass.

Great to see that you're still in the process of power reading as many boxing books as you can, Ryan, and good on you for that.

I'm fully armed for this thread after reading the Burial chapter of Hauser's Ali bio last night :D I'm ready to kick ass.

gotta go to boxing when i get back i will respond:banana:

Great to see that you're still in the process of power reading as many boxing books as you can, Ryan, and good on you for that.

I know, especially at 19, there isn't much else to do unless you're into fornicating with females, but who likes that???

Yeah, reading is fundamental and whatnot. After this book, I'm gonna break and try to tackle something by Homer. I want to test my comprehension skills full blast.

Tyson's feet were fast for a guy who is always in position to sit down on punches and whatnot, but he'd be lost against Ali. It was primarily Tyson's feet that left him in position to get caught coming in, he had good offensive footwork, but didn't recover the best when getting hit and getting back in position.

Also, Tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed properly. We saw this early with Biggs and at moments with Pinklon Thomas.

I don't think Tyson could beat Ali, plain and simple. The Tyson in his prime, maybe 1988-ish, was fighting mentally weak nobodies or guys who simply were over the hill. Truth is, Ali wasn't a guy you could intimidate. Ali fought guys like Foreman, Liston, and Frazier, guys as scary or perhaps even scarier.

Be real with me, if Tyson was getting played out at press cons and found out that not only wasn't Ali intimidated but that Ali thought he was a punk, would Tyson already have it in his mind to quit before the bell rang?

Tyson was a weasel in that he never learned how to face his fears or adversity. That's why he needs that big entourage, because they help mask up where he failed to overcome his greatest adversary, himself.

Actually, wasn't Larry Holmes talking crap about Tyson and trying to make him look bad before the fight?

Tyson's feet were fast for a guy who is always in position to sit down on punches and whatnot, but he'd be lost against Ali. It was primarily Tyson's feet that left him in position to get caught coming in, he had good offensive footwork, but didn't recover the best when getting hit and getting back in position.

Also, Tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed properly. We saw this early with Biggs and at moments with Pinklon Thomas.

I don't think Tyson could beat Ali, plain and simple. The Tyson in his prime, maybe 1988-ish, was fighting mentally weak nobodies or guys who simply were over the hill. Truth is, Ali wasn't a guy you could intimidate. Ali fought guys like Foreman, Liston, and Frazier, guys as scary or perhaps even scarier.

Be real with me, if Tyson was getting played out at press cons and found out that not only wasn't Ali intimidated but that Ali thought he was a punk, would Tyson already have it in his mind to quit before the bell rang?

Tyson was a weasel in that he never learned how to face his fears or adversity. That's why he needs that big entourage, because they help mask up where he failed to overcome his greatest adversary, himself.

Are you saying tyson was slow moving artound the ring on his feet?.

Actually, wasn't Larry Holmes talking crap about Tyson and trying to make him look bad before the fight?

Holmes gave it his best, but let's face it, he was fat and washed up and nowhere near the talker Ali was. All Holmes could muster was that Tyson was gonna go to jail. So what, who didn't know that? But Ali would've gave him some degrading nickname and made him the butt of jokes. It would've been brutal on Tyson.

Are you saying tyson was slow moving artound the ring on his feet?.

I am saying that because of Tyson's foot positioning that was always offensive and never defensive, Tyson did not have the feet to be fleet-footed.

Tyson's feet were fast for a guy who is always in position to sit down on punches and whatnot, but he'd be lost against Ali. It was primarily Tyson's feet that left him in position to get caught coming in, he had good offensive footwork, but didn't recover the best when getting hit and getting back in position.

Also, Tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed properly. We saw this early with Biggs and at moments with Pinklon Thomas.

I don't think Tyson could beat Ali, plain and simple. The Tyson in his prime, maybe 1988-ish, was fighting mentally weak nobodies or guys who simply were over the hill. Truth is, Ali wasn't a guy you could intimidate. Ali fought guys like Foreman, Liston, and Frazier, guys as scary or perhaps even scarier.

Be real with me, if Tyson was getting played out at press cons and found out that not only wasn't Ali intimidated but that Ali thought he was a punk, would Tyson already have it in his mind to quit before the bell rang?

Tyson was a weasel in that he never learned how to face his fears or adversity. That's why he needs that big entourage, because they help mask up where he failed to overcome his greatest adversary, himself.

no tyson wouldnt quit at the bell(not literally of course). u guys tend to remember the 96' and on tyson. u guys need to quit that ****. and he showed fast foot speed even when he wasnt on defense.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de6U7cjUwgw he pivoted and moved out the way alot to find more angles.of course only 1 of many fights he does this in.

and tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed when he himself wasnt jabbinguntil rooney told him to(tyson can be slow at times mentally)

and if ali was talking **** at the press conference. ok that would suck. but tyrell biggs was **** talking to him back to the amatuer days when tyson didnt make the team for the olympics.even tyson said that was his favorite fight. but what did he do? not rush and get frustrated,he took his time. even he said he could have koed him in the 3rd but he wanted him to remember the night forever.would ali have some kind of mental game on tyson? yeah he would.and maybe the first few rounds tyson might try to knock his head off but then i think he would settle down.

and like i said for a fight i dont know who would win it would be a toss up. even butterfly wasnt as biased with his claim that ali would beat tyson.he's king of like it could happen and it couldnt. but i think your set in your ways in your answer and by that its hard to have a conversation on this matter cause what ever i say u will side with ali.

i dont care about the recovery part. he was obviously still dazed. but compared to when frazier knocked him down he got up like it wasnt ****. so all im saying is he covered it up well

How do you determine how strong or weak a fighters chin is if you don't care about the recovery part? I'd have thought that the recovery process was relevant! e.g. If a fighter is knocked down and struggles to recover, then he is in trouble, right? And if this happens on a fairly regular basis would you question whether or not the fighter had a weak chin?
The fact that Ali was never knocked out, at any stage of his career, proved that he had a good chin. Prior to his exile he fought hard punchers, and he did so after his exile. None of them knocked him out. The difference between the knock-downs against Cooper and Frazier is that Cooper caught Ali early with a great punch. True he was dazed, but Ali recovered. Frazier caught Ali with a great punch late in the fight when Ali was backing up, and both fighters were tired. Ali recovered. You can't base your opinion on Ali's chin being weaker prior to his exile on one fight, and so far i have read no examples of others.
I don't want to discredit you in any way, and i'm sure you know a great deal about boxing, but i can't agree with you on this subject. Ali has always had the same 'chin!' The only thing that changed after his exile was his style.

I am saying that because of Tyson's foot positioning that was always offensive and never defensive, Tyson did not have the feet to be fleet-footed.


but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

hahaha...What about the other threads you asked this question on?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2891
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2526
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31654
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4724
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50607
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3292


You need some new material.

but if tyson used a different style would he of had the footspeed to be fleet footed?.

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

no tyson wouldnt quit at the bell(not literally of course). u guys tend to remember the 96' and on tyson. u guys need to quit that ****. and he showed fast foot speed even when he wasnt on defense.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de6U7cjUwgw he pivoted and moved out the way alot to find more angles.of course only 1 of many fights he does this in.

and tyson was vulnerable to a jab that was timed when he himself wasnt jabbinguntil rooney told him to(tyson can be slow at times mentally)

and if ali was talking **** at the press conference. ok that would suck. but tyrell biggs was **** talking to him back to the amatuer days when tyson didnt make the team for the olympics.even tyson said that was his favorite fight. but what did he do? not rush and get frustrated,he took his time. even he said he could have koed him in the 3rd but he wanted him to remember the night forever.would ali have some kind of mental game on tyson? yeah he would.and maybe the first few rounds tyson might try to knock his head off but then i think he would settle down.

and like i said for a fight i dont know who would win it would be a toss up. even butterfly wasnt as biased with his claim that ali would beat tyson.he's king of like it could happen and it couldnt. but i think your set in your ways in your answer and by that its hard to have a conversation on this matter cause what ever i say u will side with ali.

Let me tell you something that a wise man once told me. People who are born round don't die square. You don't change your spots. Sure, we can only see externally what Tyson wanted us to see in the 80s, but from what the people closest to him said, he always had a dog in his heart. He was always lacking something that optimists didn't care to expound on because it can't be measured statistically. That's why I always say, it didn't matter that Tyson went to jail and fought Holyfield later in his career. Holyfield would've whipped Tyson back in 1991 also.

Biggs was nothing compared to Ali, nothing at all. Biggs also had what, 15 fights when they fought? Comparing the mental game of Muhammad Ali and Tyrell Biggs is like comparing Larry Donald's right hand to Sonny Liston. It isn't happening.

I'm just being real. I'm a proponent of the mental aspect of boxing. Boxing is a lot more to do with mental than physical, and I don't think Tyson would have it to go deep with a guy like Muhammad Ali. Sure, there would always be the possibility that Tyson could get in a left hook, which was the only punch that Ali seemed vulnerable. And if he jabbed to Ali's chest, he'd have some marked success. But in all actuality, what else would Tyson do? Tyson would be reaching against a bigger man who was good at maintaining his defense and keeping his distance well. Tyson would be reaching all night and when Tyson got inside, nobody was better at tying their man up that Ali.

People look at Clay-Liston I and say "Oh, Liston is slow, he ain't **** but a hoe and a trick." Let me tell you something, Liston was quick, but against a guy like Ali, he had no choice but to slow it down and try to figure out the puzzle in front of him. Tyson would be slowed by the jabs, the feints, and Ali would consistently get off first. I'm telling you, just cuz Tyson's a scary dude, Tyson's from Brooklyn, he's back cuz he's from the streets, none of that matters when you're in the ring with a guy who has your number mentally. Tyson wasn't smart enough or disciplined enough to get the better of a guy like Muhammad Ali.

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

relevant or not did tyson have the footspeed to be fleetfooted, to dance like ali?.

no tyson couldnt have because he werent good enough

It's totally irrelevant because he didn't know any other style than the one he did. It's not like he had the versatility to employ new tactics when Ali was giving it to him. If he could, then he'd be a different fighter. In fact, he'd be a better fighter.

Don't answer this guy with a serious answer.

He asks the same questions over and over on different boards, for years.

I guess it's his hobby or obsession or something.

Look above at how many threads he's already started here on that subject.

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. You are underrating Frazier's defence and Ali's accuracy.

Boxing historian Monte Cox has studied slip and duck rates of champion calibre fighters including this fight counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in this fight. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight.

Remember who Frazier was making miss, a near prime Ali, a fighter known at the time for his excellent accuracy (especially the jab) who in this fight looked damn impressive in the first 5 rounds. Tyson never faced a guy who let his hands go like Ali did in Frazier I, and Ali would have caught the Tyson who fought Mitch Green enough times to have an effect.

You are underrating Frazier's defence and Ali's accuracy.

Boxing historian Monte Cox has studied slip and duck rates of champion calibre fighters including this fight counted the slip and duck rates for Frazier in this fight. Joe made Ali miss an average of 14-17 punches a round. This is the highest slip and duck rate Cox has encountered in studying fighters of this level. By contrast a prime Roberto Duran (revered for his defensive abilities) averaged about 12 a round in his peak performance at lightweight against Esteban Dejesus in their third fight.

Remember who Frazier was making miss, a near prime Ali, a fighter known at the time for his excellent accuracy (especially the jab) who in this fight looked damn impressive in the first 5 rounds.

That only worked against stand-up boxers like Ali. But it didn't work against Foreman, because Foreman dug his shots up an they were made for Frazier's ducking style. Foreman threw half hook half uppercut punches. That really did a number on Frazier.

Holmes gave it his best, but let's face it, he was fat and washed up and nowhere near the talker Ali was. All Holmes could muster was that Tyson was gonna go to jail. So what, who didn't know that? But Ali would've gave him some degrading nickname and made him the butt of jokes. It would've been brutal on Tyson.


Yes, but this is why he had D'amato and Rooney...given D'amato died, he still had Rooney to push him.

D'amato said that Patterson could of beaten Ali if it hadn't been for his bad back...I take it that D'amato knew how to beat Ali, he just needed the fighter to do it.

Tyson's mental strength, like stated many times before by others, what based on who he was hanging around.


Ali would still fustrate him though...he would just continue to tie Mike up, and that pisses him off...Mike likes to fight, he needs you to fight, that is what his style is based on...if you don't fight back, there are little, to no openings...Tyson is a machine that needs to see openings in order to perform.

Yes, but this is why he had D'amato and Rooney...given D'amato died, he still had Rooney to push him.

D'amato said that Patterson could of beaten Ali if it hadn't been for his bad back...I take it that D'amato knew how to beat Ali, he just needed the fighter to do it.

Tyson's mental strength, like stated many times before by others, what based on who he was hanging around.

also tyson was rediculed in the news alot also. on a grand stage.but he still performed well. so his mental game to me is pretty overrated

=Hot Topic;1987837]Let me tell you something that a wise man once told me. People who are born round don't die square. You don't change your spots. Sure, we can only see externally what Tyson wanted us to see in the 80s, but from what the people closest to him said, he always had a dog in his heart. He was always lacking something that optimists didn't care to expound on because it can't be measured statistically. That's why I always say, it didn't matter that Tyson went to jail and fought Holyfield later in his career. Holyfield would've whipped Tyson back in 1991 also.

I have mixed feelings about that:

I wasn't much of a fighter when I was a litle kid, but then my Father took me to a place to learn how to fight and I was taught by some tough S.O.B.s that didn't put up with ****...I went from a kid that didn't want to fight to a kid that didn't mind to fight, if I had to...it proved to me that a "Teacher/Mentor" is key.

I don't know, maybe it was my Mom that made me a ***** when I was a kid or maybe I was just scared ****less of my huge father that told me "don't fight or you will fight me"...I did show some crazy tendencies that maybe were surpressed by my Parents, but were released by my Teachers/Mentors.

Adults can really **** you up when you are a kid, stopping you from being who you really are, and should be...it takes another Teacher to come along to see that potential and release it, release you.

Ever hear "Leaders are made, not born"?

So I also take it you don't believe in EVOLUTION?

Tyson's problem to me is that he wasn't D'amato's finished product, like D'amato was able to do with Patterson and Torres. Tyson was really ****ed up when he met D'amato, and Cus said it himself, that you have to gain the trust of a person, break him down, and then rebuild him...There just wasn't enough time because Cus died before Mike was matured.


The others side to my feeling is that there is the possibility that "Nature" creates certain types of people in order to keep "ORDER"...


It's just to long to go into and I don't feel like typing everything up to go into everything and backing it up.








People look at Clay-Liston I and say "Oh, Liston is slow, he ain't **** but a hoe and a trick." Let me tell you something, Liston was quick, but against a guy like Ali, he had no choice but to slow it down and try to figure out the puzzle in front of him. Tyson would be slowed by the jabs, the feints, and Ali would consistently get off first. I'm telling you, just cuz Tyson's a scary dude, Tyson's from Brooklyn, he's back cuz he's from the streets, none of that matters when you're in the ring with a guy who has your number mentally. Tyson wasn't smart enough or disciplined enough to get the better of a guy like Muhammad Ali.

Yes, we all know this, but like I have stated, Tyson's brain was his team or to put it better,
"Tyson was only as good as the Program you put into him"-Bob Arum

Let me tell you something that a wise man once told me. People who are born round don't die square. You don't change your spots. Sure, we can only see externally what Tyson wanted us to see in the 80s, but from what the people closest to him said, he always had a dog in his heart. He was always lacking something that optimists didn't care to expound on because it can't be measured statistically. That's why I always say, it didn't matter that Tyson went to jail and fought Holyfield later in his career. Holyfield would've whipped Tyson back in 1991 also.

Biggs was nothing compared to Ali, nothing at all. Biggs also had what, 15 fights when they fought? Comparing the mental game of Muhammad Ali and Tyrell Biggs is like comparing Larry Donald's right hand to Sonny Liston. It isn't happening.

I'm just being real. I'm a proponent of the mental aspect of boxing. Boxing is a lot more to do with mental than physical, and I don't think Tyson would have it to go deep with a guy like Muhammad Ali. Sure, there would always be the possibility that Tyson could get in a left hook, which was the only punch that Ali seemed vulnerable. And if he jabbed to Ali's chest, he'd have some marked success. But in all actuality, what else would Tyson do? Tyson would be reaching against a bigger man who was good at maintaining his defense and keeping his distance well. Tyson would be reaching all night and when Tyson got inside, nobody was better at tying their man up that Ali.

People look at Clay-Liston I and say "Oh, Liston is slow, he ain't **** but a hoe and a trick." Let me tell you something, Liston was quick, but against a guy like Ali, he had no choice but to slow it down and try to figure out the puzzle in front of him. Tyson would be slowed by the jabs, the feints, and Ali would consistently get off first. I'm telling you, just cuz Tyson's a scary dude, Tyson's from Brooklyn, he's back cuz he's from the streets, none of that matters when you're in the ring with a guy who has your number mentally. Tyson wasn't smart enough or disciplined enough to get the better of a guy like Muhammad Ali.

F*ckin brilliant post!!!

IMO Tyson at his best was enough to give any heavyweight in history trouble, but this post is excellent.

i'm looking at the frazier vs.ali fight and when frazier goes in he gets hit alot cause his hands were down,but he still got to ali. now with tyson when he went in with mitch green he used wide bob and weaves and kept his hands up and threw more then just the left look when going in,and threw the jab to get in also.I know u cant compare green to ali but they both threw alot in that fight and tyson reminded me of frazier in that fight. example of how tyson fought green.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBChe576oRI

For arguments sake lets assume that both Tyson and Ali were at their best.

I believe it is pointless bringing Ali's fights in to the equation because Ali would have used appropriate tactics against Tyson. Ali was a master tactician and would have adjusted to Tysons style accordingly.

However, I do not claim to know exactly what tactics Ali would have used to beat Tyson if I did I would be a all time great like him. Look what Ali did to Foremans heavy punching, he did that by sitting on the ropes and although George didn't have the speed Tyson had, Ali didn't run so it negates that point.

Tyson hasn't fought anyone near the standard of Ali and I know your not suggesting that he has but Ali fought some truly world class opposition. There's no comparison between these fighters.

Yes, but this is why he had D'amato and Rooney...given D'amato died, he still had Rooney to push him.

D'amato said that Patterson could of beaten Ali if it hadn't been for his bad back...I take it that D'amato knew how to beat Ali, he just needed the fighter to do it.

Tyson's mental strength, like stated many times before by others, what based on who he was hanging around.


Ali would still fustrate him though...he would just continue to tie Mike up, and that pisses him off...Mike likes to fight, he needs you to fight, that is what his style is based on...if you don't fight back, there are little, to no openings...Tyson is a machine that needs to see openings in order to perform.

Oh yeah, D'Amato for years said that he could architect a fighter to beat Ali, and he probably could've. Truth is though, Tyson never won a difficult fight and Ali thrived in those circumstances.

Tyson hasn't fought anyone near the standard of Ali and I know your not suggesting that he has but Ali fought some truly world class opposition. There's no comparison between these fighters.

** Tucker and Briggs employed a hit and run Ali style against Tyson. Both were bigger than Ali, probably stronger and close in speed.

Frazier was a bob and weaver like Tyson and similar sized. All will still have style and quality differences though.

Ali beat some better fighters. Tyson was more dominant against most of his comp whereas Ali looked truly dreadful at times.

Peak to peak I favor Tyson.

** Tucker and Briggs employed a hit and run Ali style against Tyson. Both were bigger than Ali, probably stronger and close in speed.


Biggs and Tucker close in speed to Ali? Seeing how most credible historians rank Ali as the fastest of heavyweight champions, then Tucker and Biggs under you're logic must be ranked pretty high up there as well.

Bigger, stronger and almost as fast as Ali. I can't imagine how a world title eluded Tyrell Biggs who instead was chased out of the top ten rankings with back to back stoppage losses to all time greats Francesco Damiani and Gary Mason.

Biggs and Tucker close in speed to Ali? Seeing how most credible historians rank Ali as the fastest of heavyweight champions, then Tucker and Biggs under you're logic must be ranked pretty high up there as well.

Bigger, stronger and almost as fast as Ali. I can't imagine how a world title eluded Tyrell Biggs who instead was chased out of the top ten rankings with back to back stoppage losses to all time greats Francesco Damiani and Gary Mason.

Ahahahahahahahah, LondonRingRules, OWNED!!!!!!!!

:owned2: :owned2:

Ali certainly had a faster Jab than Tyson but then again he had a faster jab than Norton aswell and he managed to beat him(both times according to alot of fans)