By Stephen "Breadman" Edwards
The Daily Bread Mailbag returns, with Stephen "Breadman" Edwards discussing Saul "Canelo" Alvarez vs. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., Canelo vs. Gennady Golovkin, the Charlo brothers, Shawn Porter vs. Andre Berto, Andre Ward vs. Sergey Kovalev and more.
Ward-Kovalev 2:
What do you think about Kovalev not being able to hold an eye contact 3 times during face-off on 3 city conference tour recently? From my point it shows some mental weakness from Kovalev, and he definitely feels not on his plate. Can this sort of things be a factor in a fight, in this particular and in general? I think Froch had similar issue during Froch-Groves 2 fight but he knocked him out.
GGG-Canelo:
I am a big fan of GGG. However, looking at recent fights of GGG and Canelo I favor Canelo in this fight. His defense, counter punching, legs and hand speed are really good. GGG usually wears the opponent down, and up to the point when he KOs his opponents he usually already had landed many punches, and I can't see GGG being able to land enough punches to eventually knock Canelo out. How to you see this fight going and who do you favor?
Thanks a lot,
Looking forward to you thoughts
Regards,
Adilbek
Bread’s Response: I don’t hold much value in who can stare at someone the longest. Sometimes a guy just doesn’t want to smell another man’s breath that long. As you said, Froch KO'd Groves in their rematch. I’ve seen Tito Trinidad and Manny Pacquiao smile and jump around then all of a sudden they turn into killers once the bell rings. It’s not that big of a deal.
I have always felt Canelo’s team gave GGG too much respect. They avoided the fight and now they have seen slippage so they most likely want it. It’s really that simple. I never thought Canelo was over his head vs GGG. But he gave up a WBC belt just to not fight him and the WBC has been taking care of Canelo for years. If you remember he got to fight and unranked Welterweight in Matthew Hatton at a catchweight for his WBC title at 154lbs.
I think the 8 year age difference is a factor. Canelo also has a big advantage in hand speed and twitch fibers. Now that he’s confident he will win I think GGG has a serious fight on his hands. Right now I favor GGG slightly. If I were laying odds I say GGG opens at -175 but that is contingent on Canelo defeating Chavez.
Whats going on, hope all is well just wanted to get your take on a few things. 1st what are your thoughts on the Tank Davis/ broner fall out? Broner seems to fall out with everybody at some point. Can you see them fighting and if so who wins, also does this set up the TMT VS AB ppv that has been seemingly brewing for the past few yrs. Floyd vs Broner, easter vs davis, herring vs bey, justin deloach vs ishe smith. Does this event happen and who wins each bout? Also do you believe that trainers have certain style and they need certain type fighters to be successful? I think virgil hunter is more of a thinker, so he does better with those type of fighters guys like ward, rigo, crawford, jacobs, while freddie roach does better with explosive offensive guys like pac, khan, gamboa, ruslan? lastly can i get your picks for these hypothetical matchups ggg vs segio martinez 160, david lemiuex vs edison miranda 160, tszyu vs matthysse 140, lara vs winky wright 154, canelo vs del la hoya 154, broner vs judah 140 everybody in there primes? good luck with jrock and kyrone in the future.
Bread’s Response: I have no thoughts on the Broner and Davis fallout. That’s a personal thing between those two young men.
I can’t see them fighting anytime soon. Too much age and weight difference. They are at different points in their careers.
Yes trainers have certain styles, Without a doubt. Trainers know what body types and temperament serve them best.
GGG beats Martinez. Stops him late with a left hook to the liver.
Lemiuex clips Miranda in a shootout.
Tszyu beats Matthysse on 9 to 3 decision. Tszyu was a great puncher but his boxing skills were elite. Despite not being tall, He was an excellent outside boxer.
Wright would be too strong for Lara. Winky Wright had tremendous physical strength and walk down ability. See his fight with Vargas and Mosley. Lara doesn’t throw enough punches to beat Winky and he over moves against pressure. Winky would make it look like he was running.
Canelo vs Oscar is a hard fight to call. Canelo could be getting better. But right now I say the Oscar that beat Vargas outboxes him and beats him because of that great jab.
Judah would be a little too sharp for Broner who lays back too much. Judah in is Terron Millet days was very close to being a great fighter. Very close. I like Judah by decision on his best day.
Good call again this weekend. I saw on twitter where you said Hatley raises up too much. He was no contest for Jermell. Jermall vs Jrock was contested on a much higher skill level. Who do you like in Jermell vs Hurd? I guess Porter vs Berto was an easy call for you. But why is that Berto keeps losing to less skillful fighters? The stoppage was a bit early but Berto is the most overrated fighter I have ever seen. It drives me crazy because he looks the part. What’s next for both?
Bread’s Response: Jermell Charlo looked sensational. Hatley has talent but he didn’t have the skill. There is a difference between talent and skill. Skill has a longer shelf life and it’s easier to apply. I hope Hatley is ok. That was a bad ko. Jermell would defeat Hurd pretty handidly in my opinion. But that’s why they fight the fights.
Besides Berto landing the Sunday punch Porter is always a tough fight for him. But let’s stop disrespecting Porter. There is a skill in what he does. Berto is the kid in the hood who is more in with cool kids. His handle and jump shot is prettier than Shawn’s. His sneakers are more in style. But when you look at them play and see who is more effective you know Shawn is.
Shawn Porter has the best character in boxing. Period. I pray that I get a kid with that kind of character one day. He fights until the death. He fights through any adversity. Cuts, huge punches and criticism. He father is a no nonsense guy who trains him all year around. He comes in the gym. He doesn’t get on a cell phone and take 30 minutes to get dressed. He doesn’t talk back or curse. He just works and gets everything out of his talent.
Porter was turning Berto. He was pivoting around him. He was double jabbing him off of his spot when he Berto was trying to hold his ground. He also smothered Berto’s offense. That takes skill. It’s just not the skill you like to watch. Have an open mind. There was a time 50 years ago when half of the elite fighters fought like Shawn Porter. Limitless stamina, rock chins, and vicious workrates. Now no one wants to work hard enough to perfect what he does. It’s not an easy style to transition to in 12 round fights.
Porter will go on to give any and everybody hell. Fighters just don’t feel like fighting until the death. Porter can go to that darkplace seemingly everytime he steps in the ring. Not saying Porter will beat everyone but no one has an easy time with Shawn Porter.
The thing about the stoppage was Berto kept making eye contact with the ref. He kept complaining and his body language was that of a defeated man. In New York they will pull the trigger early and stop the fight. There isn’t a reason to complain about the stoppage. At this point in his career Berto has made a lot of money. Berto seems prideful. He can stick around and get brought in on the B side to make someone look good but I don’t think he will allow himself to be used up. Or he can retire. Going through another grueling camp is difficult unless you have a certain kind of character. Only special men can be brought in to lose but embrace it like Holyfield did in his1st fight vs Tyson. It’s not an easy place to be for a fighter. I wish Berto the best….
Bread,
What up? Hope all is well ! Just had a few questions for you. What fighter that do you feel has a right to be in the hall that isn't? For me it's Kennedy McKinney! He seems to be a forgotten man an Olympic gold medalist who won Two world Championships and had 5 successful defenses as well as a few classics! Also when speaking of fighters who got a tough draw when going for Championships what about Angel Manfredy he got Floyd then Corrales ,Stevie Johnston and Spadafora wow! Anyway I'm finishing with my Top Ten African American fighters let me Know what you think!1)Ray Robinson 2) Muhammad Ali 3) Joe Louis 4)Ray Leonard 5)Floyd Mayweather 6)Pernell Whitaker 7)Henry Armstrong 8)Roy Jones Jr 9) Archie Moore 10)Marvin Hagler! I gave it a shot what ya think?
Fats
Bread’s Response: Kennedy Mckinney was one of my favorite fighters of the 90s. His come from behind ko over Welcome Ncita to win the title was something. He was also part of the first great fight on Boxing After Dark vs Marco Antonio Barrera. And when they thought he was done he sparked Junior Jones. I have no problem with McKinney going to the HOF. His drop off was bad but that’s how it goes. Stand up Kennedy that was a bad little dude.
For me there are a few fighters who I feel should be in. Donald Curry, Julian Jackson, Steve Collins , Michael Nunn and Chris Eubank all come to mind. But the fighter who stands out the most is Nigel Benn. There is no way in the world that Nigel Benn should not be in the HOF. His victories over Iran Barkley and Gerald McClellan put him over the top for me.
Yes Manfredy got a ridiculously tough draw when it came to his title opportunities. It’s almost as if certain fighters are cursed. How about Rocky Juarez. He beats Zahir Raheem in a crazy tough eliminator and gets undrerrated Humberto Soto for the interim title. Then in his next 5 title tries he gets Marco Antonion Barrera twice, Chris John twice and Juan Manuel Marquez. Dam!!!! And Oba Carr gets an undefeated Tito Trinidad. An undefeated Ike Quartey. And an undefeated Oscar de la Hoya, all in their primes!!! You talk about being born at the wrong time!!!
List are subjective but Henry Armstrong is way too low and Ezzard Charles and Evander Holyfield need to be on there. Sorry.
I could be way wrong, because you know I love an underdog, but I think Chavez has a 55-45 shot. Contrary to what most people think, I believe his best chance will be in the 2nd half of the fight not the first. I think with the extra muscle Canelo will put on, his arms will get heavier and heavier as the fight wears on. He already has cramping problems in his legs, that's why he wears that circulation tape. Chavez has a lean build. He's not that explosive, but if he's in shape, he can be hell late in the fight. Canelo is already working on getting inside of Chavez's looping shots, and attacking chavez body. So I could see Canelo stopping him inside 5. But if he doesn't, we could get a fight of the year candidate, with a very dramatic ending.
Bread’s Response: I think Chavez’s chances go up as the fight goes along also. But I don’t agree that Canelo will have to work his way inside. Canelo has better reflexes and a better first step. He will be the better outside fighter despite his height disadvantage. Chavez will be the one trying to make it a mid range and or inside fight just like he did to the shorter Sergio Martinez.
The problem Chavez will have late is he will absorb a vicious body beating early. How much will he have in his tank? Lean supple muscles usually do have more endurance but it’s only a 36 minute fight. Chavez will need to win rounds and do damage early unlike what he did vs Martinez.
I know you can’t say it but I can. The Charlo brothers are clearly on something. Jermell the non punching brother who has a less than .500 ko percentage has turned into one punch brutal puncher. I have been watching boxing for many, many years and I haven’t seen that. I watched him fight Demetrius Hopkins and barely won. I thought it was draw. He couldn’t crack an egg. I have watched at least 10 of his fights. Jermell was a stinker and a mover who really wasn’t a big puncher. He’s 29-0 and they won’t let him headline a show because he was so boring. Now he’s a mouth foaming power puncher after a decade as a pro. The other brother was big but he was slow and non explosive. Against Williams he looked like Ray Lewis. Nobody can put on that much weight in one day and still look like that. It’s pretty obvious what they are doing. Showtime had the second day weigh in for Williams fight and they said Charlo was 158. That was a lie! There is no way he only gained 4 lbs in one day. He was at least 175lbs. Clean fighters get better gradually not like this. I did my research and I know Jermall refused to be VADA tested for the Williams fight. These guys have turned into animals after being average amateurs and just pretty good prospects. I was in Brooklyn and both are also very temperamental outside of the ring which shows me something too. And it’s not just their punching power. There ability to take punches look different also. There are PEDs that will enhance bone density which make you take a punch better. As well as Enhance reaction time and enhance power and explosiveness. Everyone on press row is questioning them off the record but no one will ask them outright. Two years ago these twins would have been big underdogs against GGG ,Demetrius Andrade and Erislandy Lara. Jermall was even money 50/50 against unproven Williams in December. Right now under NO testing they would be the favorites to beat all three. Again I know you can’t say much but you do make predictions based on testing in fights. Would you favor the Charlos to beat the fighters I named under no testing?
Bread’s Response: You have to be careful accusing fighters of cheating who have not failed drug test. Both Charlo twins have looked spectacular in their last fights and better than they ever have before. But they are 26 and have a right to improve.
Without singling them out I believe all championship level fighters should be doing testing. I also believe the A side fighters in these championship level fights show their level of integrity by what they do with drug testing. When you have the ability to make your opponent test and you don’t it tells me something. Why would any fighter trust their opponent who is trying to knock them out so much? Again that’s why I have so much respect for GGG and Wilder. They ask for VADA which is the toughest testing program and they still score comprehensive kos. And for the record being in the Clean Testing Program in order to stay ranked by the WBC is not the same as paying for VADA. Some fighters are disguising being in the Program as doing VADA. It’s not.
To answer you directly 95% of the top fighters don’t ask for extra testing or VADA. VADA is actually too good for their own good because they catch too many people. That’s why in my opinion we are in the PED era. So it’s not fair to single out the Charlos for not testing, because most top fighters don’t. So we are assessing most of these current fighters on their non testing performances. To put it in perspective it would be the same as if we judged an Olympic 100 meter sprint with NO drug testing……Besides GGG, Wilder, Kovalev, Ward, Bradley and Pacquiao I can’t think of many other top guys who have been in big fights lately and performed high under testing. So in their current form I would favor both Charlos over Lara and Andrade at 154 and GGG at 160. I don’t know what the betting lines would be but I do know the oddsmakers and big bettors lay lines and money according to drug testing and non drug testing. For example a prominent gambler I know waited to bet his usual 100k until he found out whether Canelo and Chavez was doing VADA. Unfortunately this is the era we are in. Let’s see how things play out before you jump to conclusions. Maybe they will start testing and still perform at this level. Maybe they won’t. Time will tell. And hopefully very soon testing won’t be a choice it will be mandated.
What do you think is the main key to Ward vs Kovalev? I think it’s the jabs. Neither guy seems to be able to dominate the other with their best punch the jab. I think this will be another close fight.
Bread’s Response: I think the main key is how long does it take Ward to turn this fight into an inside or midrange fight. IT’s just that simple. From the outside I think it favors Kovalev because of his length speed and comfort level. Kovalev does not in fight.
If Ward gets off to a good start winning rounds early and infighting it’s a wrap. He will probably score a late tko because Kovalev is too antsy, prideful and easily agitated to take a 12-0 shut out. But if Kovaelv gets off to another blazing start and gets his outside game going then I see another tight fight where Ward will have to re-adjust midway through.
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