By Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards

The Daily Bread Mailbag returns, as Stephen 'Breadman' Edwards discusses the retirement of Carl Froch, Premier Boxing Champions, Willie Nelson's upset knockout of Tony Harrison, Mauricio Herrera vs. Hank Lundy and more.

Hope all is well.  I've been reading your column for about five years now and it's still the best in the business.  While I don't always agree with you, I never discount your opinion.

PBC

With respect to the PBC and any other promotional outfit for that matter, boxing fans like myself really just want to see good fights with the best against the best.  The promoters and advisers are less relevant than the fighters and the fights.  The bottom line is that it is the fights that matter.

As  to the PBC, with all the talent PBC has, there appears to be a reluctance to pit their A-sides against each other.

At 147, the arguably deepest weight range in boxing, PBC has a lot of the best fighters: Floyd Mayweather, Danny Garcia, Adrian Broner, Amir Khan, Keith Thurman.  None has faced each other!  They haven't even faced Kell Brook, who is with a promotional outfit that will work with PBC.  Instead, we have Garcia facing Malignaggi and Thurman facing Collazo and Khan facing Algieri.  At 160, the best PBC fighters are Quillin and Jacobs and they haven't faced each other.  At 175, the best PBC fighters are Stevenson and Beterbiev.  Same.  If Beterbiev is too green, get creative and have Andre Dirrell move up to face him.  At 154, the best are Williams, the Charlo brothers, and Lara.  Again, same.  Finally we're getting Santa Cruz and Mares, but Santa Cruz's soft opposition for so long has hurt his reputation so much that I just hope he can bounce back. With Santa Cruz's track record, I'm not going to hold my breadth that the winner faces Frampton either.  All in all, it leaves something to be desired.

On the other side of the street, Kovalev has faced the two best available options in Hopkins and Pascal.  GGG has faced everyone at 160 that he can get in the ring.  Klitschko faced Jennings and is facing Fury.  Matthysse faced Provodnikov and is facing Postol.

The good fights you mentioned in your last mailbag--Thurman/Guerrero, Dirrell/DeGale, Garcia/Peterson, Broner/Porter, and Quillin/Lee--were good fights, but they weren't the best fights that could have been made by PBC.  There were clear A-sides facing B-sides, or guys from other promotional stables.  Also, two of them had catch weights, which, unfortunately, have the effect of leaving a sour taste in a lot of fans' mouths.

By the way, this is nothing new.  Promoters have been doing this for ages.  Yet, if we judged Bob Arum and Oscar with disdain for doing this type of thing three years ago, there's no reason why PBC shouldn't be held to the same standards.

One more thing and I have nothing concrete to base this on, but there is a feeling among boxing fans, hardcore fans not casual fans, that PBC is alienating the hardcore fans to cater to the casual fan.  If that is the case, it's a shame and a mistake.

I'm taking a wait-and-see approach.  PBC has the talent, and I just hope they start putting their best against each other.

GGG

I don't hold it against GGG if he doesn't go up to face Ward.  In my opinion, you can't duck a guy in the weight class above you, BUT if you're going to face Ward, face him at 168.  Come on now.  If we gave Ward grief for making Dawson come down and Broner for making Porter, we have to do the same for GGG.  Right?  And I still say the fight to make was with Froch at 168, where I think Froch might have beat him back down to the middleweight division.

All the best,

Grant

Bread’s Response: Hey buddy I remember you from the old days…..Here is the thing. I’m not saying the PBC has made any super fights because they haven’t. But the quality of the fights over the last 4 months since the PBC has started has been as good or better than any other network. Tell me the best four fights HBO has put on since March and let’s hold them side by side and let’s grade the match ups? And you’re slightly off Degale vs Direll was the best fight that could have been made for that vacant title.

The fans complain about the PBC but don’t complain about other networks and I don’t get it. You may be in the minority if all you care about are fights. But not everyone just cares about good fights.

I have read and heard statements ranging all over the place. Here are a few…..”I don’t trust Al Haymon, he never shows his face.” “How is Haymon going to pay back his investors.” “Why did they sign so many fighters?”

I can keep going but I can’t for the life of me understand why a fan would care how Al Haymon is going to pack back his investment. Or why he doesn’t talk to the media.  I think the reason for the backlash is because of the personal dislike for Al Haymon and his associates because most of the critics aren’t e being patient with the PBC. Let things play out slightly and be objective is all that anybody who truly cares about boxing can do. Instead we have people with important platforms shoot the PBC down just for the sake of shooting it down and the fans are following.

You say the fights have had some clear B sides. Well most fights do. Kovalev was the clear favorite vs Hopkins and Pascal. But the B sides have won 4 fights on the PBC with Willie Nelson, Jamie McDonnell, James Degale and Shawn Porter. And there haven’t been any terrible decisions. Garcia vs Peterson was controversial but it wasn’t Pacquiao vs Bradley 1. Again, I say just be patient and let’s see how this plays out. The PBC just started 4 months ago…

I like GGG. He’s one of my favorite fighters in boxing. But I understand boxer language. It’s a very prideful tongue. Fighters don’t admit certain things because they are prideful. But you have to watch and listen close. GGG is saying through my translation I’m not fighting Andre Ward right now, period.

Ward just weighed in at 172 for his comeback fight. Ward is known for a guy who doesn’t back down at the negotiating table. There is now way in hell Ward is going to concede 4lbs to GGG. So I’m not going to discuss that fight anymore because Ward coming down to 164 is unrealistic.

What in the hell happened to Tony Harrison? They were making this kid out to be the next Tommy Hearns. You would have thought he was some kind of killer or something. Who is Haymon’s matchmaker? I’m not anti Haymon but I read your stuff often and you openly say that Top Rank has the best matchmakers. No way they would have put Harrison in with Nelson.

Bread’s Response: Al Haymon has a few matchmakers but I don’t know who was responsible for making Harrison vs Nelson. And yes I do believe Top Rank has the best matchmakers. Their prospects usually turn into top level pros with glossy records before they slide. Mikey Garcia, Kelly Pavlik, Floyd Mayweather, Oscar De La Hoya, Miguel Cotto and Juan Manuel Lopez all had amazing records and won world championships before they lost a fight. Floyd Mayweather and Mikey Garcia have still yet to lose.

In fairness to all parties involved, Harrison just recently signed with Haymon. So they were not the outfit that was grooming him throughout his rise. I think he has only been with them for 3 fights now.

We also have to take into consideration that Vegas listed Harrison as a huge favorite. Willie Nelson just loss to Vanes Martirosyan and he struggled a great deal with Lucian Cuello. That was a winnable fight for Tony Harrison and he was up on the scorecards.

But here is the thing. We didn’t know much about Harrison because his recent fights have ended so early. He’s also fought very limited competition. But that’s what happens when you have these kids with glossy ko records. They never get rounds in. So in tough fights they are wild cards. With Harrison’s attitude and persona this will be extremely tough to come back from. I wish the young man the best.

Let’s give props to Willie Nelson. This young man has overcome knockdowns. He has overcome losses. He does not benefit from favorable matchmaking. He was coming off of a loss and a 9 month layoff and he was huge underdog in this fight. He still won.

What's up Bread?

I just wanted to get your thoughts on this past Saturday's PBC event on ESPN.  What did you think of Keith Thurman's performance and Luis Collazo's decision to retire on his stool? What about Willie Nelson's come from behind KO over Tony Harrison?

I thought Keith Thurman put on a solid performance but I was most impressed with his ability to survive that lethal body shot from Collazo.  I know Collazo is getting a lot of criticism for quitting but I was surprised at his willingness to press the action against a bigger puncher.  We have talked about degrees of quitting before and I would say that Luis Collazo basically conceded and admitted defeat.  He could have soldiered on but I guess it's harder to do so without power as the great equalizer

As for Tony Harrison do you think he was cocky or overconfident going in? I think the fight started changing for Nelson when he stopped trying to box from distance and went back to being the tall pressure fighter that he is.  He doesn't have the defensive reflexes to be a long jabber so I think he made a great adjustment.

I'm sure you had your eyes on both guys since they could be potential opponents down the road.

Peace,

William in West Palm

Bread’s Response: I think Haymon is trying to do something that critics said in the past he didn’t. He’s trying to build stars in their hometowns. They showcased Keith Thurman in Florida where he is from. I wasn’t there live but the crowd seemed pretty good. I couldn’t hear the ESPN broadcast I was watching the fight at a bar….

Thurman did ok. He didn’t set the world on fire but in this age of microwave criticism I’m sure people will say he’s a bum. Thurman is what he is. He’s a skittish mover, who tries to walk you into big punches. Acelino Freitas type... This style has worked for him thus far but he’s going to have trouble against true pressure. In this era however most don’t apply true pressure. They may come forward and try to walk you down a little bit but the pressure I’m talking about is different. These kids are afraid to get tired so they apply it in small spots.

Nevertheless Thurman is a solid fighter but he has come back down to earth. He’s not the seek and destroy ko specialist that some have touted but he’s not a hype job either. Any fighter that can punch like that, and makes you come to him will be dangerous while in their physical prime. Thurman didn’t look great against Collazo but he did make him quit. As far as I know Collazo has never quit before and this was not the first time Thurman has made a gutsy veteran quit. There must be something he is doing.

The biggest weakness in Thurman is his legs are his defense. When you are 5’7 at welterweight that can be a problem. He scampers away when he doesn’t want to punch and sometimes it looks awkward. He doesn’t really have a built in defense and he doesn’t understand how to get distance except for scampering away. That’s why he gives the impression he’s running so often…

Yes I did watch the Willie Nelson vs Tony Harrison fight closely. There is no doubt Harrison was cocky, overconfident and every other adjective that’s similar. He was even talking in 3rd person, which is a good sign of that. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you can fight your ass off. Harrison is a solid young prospect but his accomplishments or ability does not match his “swag”. Hopefully the kid can bounce back, that was a devastating, humbling experience.

You said it right. And I will add….Willie Nelson is similar to Paul Williams. Everyone wants them to box from the outside but neither had the eyes for that. Nelson is a tall, action fighter. He can box a little but that’s not his game. He doesn’t have the defensive eyes, or coordination for that. But what he does have is a huge heart, he’s battle tested and he has will power. He never stops trying.

Harrison was winning the fight from the outside looking in but I believe that Nelson’s steady resistance was wearing Harrison down mentally. I couldn’t hear much commentary but I did hear a couple of times Harrison kept acknowledging Nelson when he landed a good shot. That’s the sign of a mental breakdown. Think about this, what if the judge didn’t see the shot and you say good jab to your opponent. How counterproductive is that? Nelson didn’t do anything spectacular he just kept trying and eventually he caught Harrison with a solid shot. It was just that simple. Good job and props to Willie Nelson.

Have you ever seen a fighter have worse luck than Hank Lundy? This guy is the most snake bitten boxer I have ever seen. Where does he go from here and do you think he deserved the decision?

Bread’s Response: The decision was close. I don’t think it was a robbery but the 5th round was so short……

As far as Lundy being snake bitten I wouldn’t say he’s the most snake bitten fighter ever. But in the last 10 years I can’t think of another fighter who has had worse luck. I don’t know if it’s bad karma, bad luck, a hex , whatever you want to call it but Lundy is definitely a guy who is always ever so close but something always happens to stop him from that significant victory.

When he lost to John Molina he was winning big and he got clipped. Then he worked his way back up and only to lose to Ray Beltran by 1 point. Then he takes a tough fight vs Victor Postol and loses that. No one seen that one so it didn’t hurt him too bad..

He goes back on a solid winning streak and takes a winnable fight on HBO vs Thomas Dulorme.  A knockdown causes him the fight after he came on strong in the 2nd half. HBO brings him back and now the Herrera debacle. Geez. This is one of the worst streaks of bad luck in recent times. I still think Lundy can get the Terrance Crawford fight. He didn’t lose convincingly and Herrera seems to want to go after Lucas Matthysse. So if Herrera vs Matthysse happens, why not Crawford vs Lundy which would set up a big showdown for the winners.

I recently saw an interview with Paulie Malignaggi. The reporter asked him who was he picking between Shawn Porter and Adrien Broner. Paulie’s reply was something like read in between the lines. I’m picking Broner. Now Paulie didn’t say why, but I’m assuming he was picking Broner because they were doing testing and he has suggested in the past that Porter used PEDS when he knocked him out. What did you take from the video and what do you think of Paulie working with Memo now? How do you like his chances vs Danny Garcia?

Bread’s Response: I didn’t see the video so I can’t really comment. And out of respect and fairness to Paulie I don’t want to assume what he meant. Heck I picked Broner too, we were both wrong lol.

As far as Paulie working with Memo….I think Paulie is trying to give himself the best chance to win a huge fight in his career. I personally think Memo is a very smart guy and he can really help a fighter max his physical potential. I also know that Memo has a shady past that can never be overlooked.

Paulie has a chance. I’m not picking him to win but I think he can trouble Danny if he doesn’t get caught early. The early rounds are very important because he was caught early in his last fight. He has to overcome that physically and mentally.

Man you are a genius with your punching power theory. I have never heard that theory put quite like you put it but it played out perfectly in the Nelson vs Harrison fight. Harrison is known as the puncher and Nelson is known as a guy who is chinny but for some reason Nelson took Harrison’s punches better, so he was the puncher in the fight. Where do both go from here?

Bread’s Response: I’m no genius but yes my theory is 100%. The puncher in every fight is the fighter who takes the other ones punches better. Period. Everybody takes a punch different so the devices that can measure punching power and what not have no bearing in the actual fights. Neither do ko% and all of the other stuff that boxing nerds love to analyze.

I think Harrison has some rebuilding to do but I wouldn’t be surprised if he got a rematch with Nelson. He was a big favorite, he was winning the fight on points and it’s not out of the realm he can right the wrong.

Nelson has lots of options. He can fight a rematch with Harrison and make more money. He can fight one of the other top super welterweights in Haymon’s stable. He can challenge Demetrius Andrade who is without a credible opponent. Or at 6’3 Nelson can move up and challenge Andy Lee or Danny Jacobs for middleweight titles. Willie Nelson is in a good spot that will assure him of at least 2 more nice paydays.

Now that Carl Froch has retired is he a HOF and where do you rank him in the all time super middleweight greats?

Bread’s Response: For some reason there is this line of thinking that a fighter has to move up in weight. To me that’s so ridiculous. It shows a great amount of dedication to stay in the same division for an entire career. I also love the career accomplishments of fighters who stayed at the same weight. Carl Froch is the latest in the line of Marvin Hagler’s and Kostya Tszyu’s.

I think Carl Froch is a career overachiever who’s sum total outweighed the eye ball test and his parts broken down. His will power, physical strength and ability to adjust made him a great fighter. He’s HOF fighter.

The super middleweight division is not that old but they have produced some great fighters. Based on the eye ball test, accomplishments, competition faced and missed, ability to overcome adversity and projected head to head outcomes vs other greats I think Froch is in the top 10.

I would say 1. Roy Jones  2.Joe Calzaghe  3.James Toney 4.Andre Ward  5.Carl Froch 6.Nigel Benn  7.Chris Eubank  8. Mikkel Kessler 9. Steve Collins 10. Chong Pal Park are top 10 super middleweights ever.

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